Display running balance with each entry


(Tom) #1

Hi all,

It would great if we were able to see a running balance alongside each entry in the app. This would mirror a traditional bank invoice as you might expect.

Minor feature I know but I would really appreciate it!

Thanks
Tom


TfL Transaction Date vs Actual spend date
Running balance
Balance on given date
Cumulative bank balance
Balance on transactions
Balance after each transaction
New balance for each transaction
Total Spent Per Day 4 + Balance After Every Transaction
#2

It is not a minor feature. Currently I regard it as a major omission.


(Patrick Feltham) #3

Sounds a great feature that should be implemented ASAP.


(Alex Sherwood) #4

Out if Interest, how would you use this?

Obviously your current balance is always available in the app so I’m not sure how I could use a running balance, for my older transactions :thinking:


#5

I was coming here to post exactly this… Great timing !!

How can you not have a running balance, or at least the ability to enter into a top up and see how much it balanced to after the top up… And still have any form of accuracy.

I have a ATM refund thats appeared, without any associated ATM withdrawal… I am told via chat ‘yeah thats a refund but we have a bug… it will be fixed’ oddly tho that says the refunds are not showing… But I am the opposite, I have the deduction not showing and the refund showing.

Either way, without some kind of running balance, at some stage a record of totals, its not possible to see the accuracy of your withdrawals. Ideally each transaction should show the balance at time of the transaction (in the details page is ok).

Without it its impossible to see the accuracy of your expenditure… its just ‘a bunch of top ups and a bunch of expenditure’ with no starting or finishing level.


#6

So over a few weeks… you add top ups… You spend… you ad more top ups… all varying amounts from 50 to 500… You spend…

Now how do you reconcile the 2 ?? If you have no starting point, only the end point (current balance) how do you double check (double entry) the expenditure is accurately matching the inputs… Theres no baseline / check point.

Seems a huge omission now I cant tally up my feed…


(Alex Sherwood) #7

I see what you mean, reconciliation would be tricky. So what’s your concern here, that Monzo isn’t managing reconciliation properly for you or something else?

Also, doesn’t the pulse graph do a pretty good (perhaps not perfect) job of displaying your balance after top ups & purchases, by day?


#8

Actually I believe my totals to be wrong… in my favor… But I have no actual way to be ‘certain’ of this… Only fairly sure.

And we have no pulse graph on Android…


(Alex Sherwood) #9

Got it :thumbsup: so interestingly, the API does keep a running total of your balance, after each debit / credit.

Bear in mind that the amounts from the API don’t include decimal points…

Monzo’s just decided not to display that figure in the app. I think Hugo touches on the reason for this here -

Anyway, it’s simple to view your transactions from the API. Just go to https://developers.getmondo.co.uk/api/playground, click the List Transactions link & hit the Send button…

Once you’ve checked that the balance is consistently correct (I’m guessing it is, as I’d have thought this would have been picked up sooner, if there were issues here), it’s worth flagging anything that’s causing confusion (& making it hard to keep track of your running balance), in case there’s anything that Monzo can do to make this data easier to understand :slight_smile:

Having said that, I trust Monzo to calculate an accurate balance for me (it’s just additions & subtractions, at the end of the day) so I wouldn’t want to see the running total in my feed view because for me, it would just be noise - with no practical application…


#10

I am struggling to dig through all the different declines and FX amounts to the ones in the feed… But my feed doesnt seem right…

“trust without verification” cant work in banking… It has to have that data (can be hidden to the details page) but without it theres simply no user facing way to be sure.


(Alex Sherwood) #11

Ok…the data’s there though, Monzo’s not trying to hide anything.

So if it’s too much effort for you to scan the transaction data to get to the account balances (ctrl + f in Chrome will make your life easier), then frankly, that seems like a good indicator of how concerned you are about this potential issue.


#12

The point is… Thats not a user facing UI…

99.99% sure… My feed (Home/timeline) and my Spending (monthly) dont show correct numbers.

The reason for this appears to be a displayed refund and a non displayed deduction. But that effectively screws all the visible user data. The ‘current total’ may be correct but all data derived from the transaction data isnt.

Hence my argument that totals are an essential part of user verification.


(Alex Sherwood) #13

There certainly are a few issues with refunds & how they feed into totals at the moment…


#14

OK so its an issue… Fair enough this is beta… But you have to see why it then MUST have a total (somewhere… Buried… Details page all ok).

On android I have only a timeline… and spending… Those are now both wrong… I have no other ‘not wrong’ data to use. Every piece of user facing UI (totals) data is incorrect, my timeline, my monthly totals, and thats ALL Monzo gives me.

If I wasnt watching Monzo with a keen eye I wouldnt know… And the lack of seeing any running balance means I would have no way to know… I get that ‘you turst monzo’ but this isnt a trust thing, its kind of a fundamental part of monitoring the accuracy of a beta app and system.


(Alex Sherwood) #15

What’s wrong with those figures?

The way I see this is you’re asking Monzo to build a feature that won’t be useful once the issues are fixed.

Perhaps this would be useful now for manual reconciliation but I’m happy to trust Monzo to do the calculations & my reporting hasn’t been impacted significantly (though perhaps there are other user’s whose reporting has been though, I don’t know…) so I don’t need this feature.

Anyway, I think I’ve made my point now & I don’t want this to turn into an argument :slight_smile: so all I can say is, the more detail you can provide about where the calculations aren’t working, the better (hence my question earlier in the post) & perhaps that will add up to a strong enough use case for this feature to be implemented…


#16

The issue is… Without that being shown, theres no way (outside the API) to actually verify that any totals are correct, that inputs and outputs match… ‘trust’ is not good enough… Trust but verify.

Whats happened to me is an ATM took 100 and refunded 100… The refund is shown the deduction is hidden. Now my timeline is +100 and my spending is -100 and essentially every user facing total is incorrect. I only know its incorrect with mental arithmetic, not having the card a long time, and being sure of what I topped up and going back over the time since getting the card. Imagine a year down the road, topping up from many different debit cards !!!

In fact even as I write this I realize… Theres ‘spending’ as a category but not matched ‘funding’ category… So again we simply cant see what we added to the account (in total).

Denying a balance / freeze point is simply non viable IMO. There ‘has’ to be some kind of point you can go back to and track spending totals (especially as mine are all wrong) manually against the apps version.


#17

Yep. I have never trusted banks totally as people can make errors and so can computer systems. I have always audited my account from day one using a running balance and then I always know what date I had last audited it and then just have to check recent transactions. With no running balance in Monzo I can only audit from day 1 to date, which clearly ia going to become harder the longer I hold the account.

If not all people want or need such info, perhaps we could have a setting to toggle it on and off?


(Tom) #18

Wow well this has blown up considerably.

I believe the main reason people want this feature is for their own personal auditing.

It’s nice to see what your balance was before you spent a whole lot of X on that Y. And if anything, showing that Monzo’s calculations of balance are indeed correct (which I’m sure are 99% of the time) only does good things for you guys. Yes, i could sit there and calculate it all myself but who has time to be a part-time accountant?

Thanks for all the interest guys, really excited for Monzo to go public!

Thanks
Tom


( related to Monzo CEO, Investor in Monzo ) #19

I discussed similar concerns way back in may here -

now we can export our data into a spread sheet is this problem of reconciliation not sorted out albeit from a laptop - should it not be immediately available in app ?

having to scroll through the graph as @hugo suggest in the attached post does seem quite cumbersome / awkward for an otherwise beautiful design


(Andy Little) #20

I agree that a running total on each transaction in the app is an essential feature for any bank. At the moment I have a spreadsheet that gives me a running total puled from the API, but that really isn’t going to be acceptable for the average user in the long term.

Perhaps this issue is solved by the pulse graph, but I haven’t seen the graph so I don’t know how much detail you get. Also, I don’t think that all users have the ability to export transactions to a spreadsheet yet? Feel free to correct me if I’ve missed something.