I am on about every Post Office, yes.
If you paid for a Post Office product, you should be able to just use the terminal (unless it is certain bills, postal orders, or some other things).
If it is a retail product, such as packaging, cards, etc., then we technically cannot do it with a card on the Post Office system. Lots of Post Offices may do it as stamps, then reverse it, but like I said, this is fraud. We can be prosecuted if found. Next time, ask for the card receipt, if it says ‘Postage Stamps’ then they have commited fraud, otherwise, they must’ve used a different terminal to the Post Office one.
1 Like
If they have been told they can’t use the pin pad for things like stamps, then yes, that post office must’ve told their staff to do it as cash withdrawals, or they haven’t been trained properly, or just a bad day (we get a lot of awkard customers, especially at the moment).
However, most Post Offices are privately owned businesses, using the Post Office brand and systems. Post Office Limited would never encourage this, that would be the individual branch saying this to its staff. This is why if you went to a ‘Crown’ branch, you would never be told this.
Most Post Offices though are properly trained, and now more are getting seperate pin pads for the retail, but this costs us quite a bit, meaning small branches might not see it as worth it.
Also, like I said earlier there are things such as some bills and postal orders that are cash only.
2 Likes
This is the bit I can’t get my head around. If you’re processing card transactions for post office products, then you’re able to process card transactions, period. Monzo don’t allow cash withdrawals via the Link network, so it can’t be a cash withdrawal.
I’m 99% certain I purchased packaging using my Monzo card (and subsequently used the receipt to claim back from work - it certainly didn’t say ‘postage stamps’) - it’s the only card I carry that I know the pin to. I’ve definitely paid for my driving license renewal, and cards, using it.
Just the standard one mounted in front of the window.
I know it seems stupid, but this is Post Office Limited’s fault, not ours. Like I said before, the Post Office is a seperate thing from the retail section.
The driving license should be fine (I think, we don’t do them in my branch), as that is a Post Office product. However, the packaging and cards must’ve been put as postage stamps, there is no other option if you used the normal terminal, the receipt you got was probably the retail receipt, but not the actual payment receipt with all your card details on, that one the PO probably destroyed.
Thanks for replying.
Yeah, I get that part - anything processed through the Bank Giro Credit system needs cash, to be sure it’s cleared and due to the way the system works, I suppose.
You could always facilitate those transactions, quite legitimately, via the cash withdrawal route though.
It does sound like poor training and bad practice at a limited number of Post Offices, rather than a completely widespread problem.
Where I live the nearest Post Office is inside a Tesco Express (a while ago, it used to be only a Post Office and then the Post Office bit was shrunk down into a corner with a few counters, with Tesco as the rest of the shop. The demarcation there is obviously quite clear - if buying Tesco products, go to their tills (they even have self checkouts) and pay there; if buying a Post Office product, you can pay with their card readers at the counter. The confusion comes in with smaller corner shop Post Offices, where the same front desk is used to process both but the shop is, technically, cash only. I get that the terminal, which may look to the average customer to just be a card reader, is part of the Post Office and can only be used for their transactions.
It does seem that some Post Offices take it upon themselves to deliberately put through transactions which are to do with post as though they are cash withdrawals (really it’s step 1: cash withdrawal; step 2: pay in “cash” for the product). I imagine this must be because they are getting some kind of commission for the cash withdrawal part?
What makes all of this even more problematic for Monzo customers, of course, is that Monzo is not a member of LINK - so cash withdrawals can’t be conducted with Monzo cards, but card payments can. Some Post Offices seem to incorrectly refuse them completely by not understanding this distinction.
1 Like
Yeah, we do that for those paying with the main high street banks, yet annoyingly Monzo isn’t part of the Link network, so we can’t do them as withdrawals through our systems (something that I believe will hold Monzo back from being more widespread).
Also, yes. We get paid commision per £1000 withdrawn through us, so some POs might be abusing this for PO products annoyingly. These ones are the ones that should reported to PO Limited and be retrained, as this is bad for customer service, especially at the moment with people not wanting to touch the pin pads.
This is once again mainly due to bad training from POL which is then passed from the managers of the branch to the other staff.
1 Like
Makes sense, this is pretty much what I figured.
I do think that this is a significant problem; with not just Monzo but a lot of other fintechs not being part of LINK, there needs to be better clarity and understanding of how to deal with it (and also why it doesn’t work so Post Offices can hopefully explain to customers rather than risk angering or confusing them).
As you say, it would all be fixed if Monzo and the others joined LINK, but that is never going to be economical for them as they don’t own or operate any ATMs themselves. Considering that the pricing structure is basically set up to make providing a reciprocal network amongst banks with ATMs work, it will never favour a provider with only one or the other.
1 Like
Yeah, I agree that better training and clarity is needed, but most of all I also agree that there needs to be a way for fintechs to join Link with a decent deal. Starling has got an agreement directly with the PO, but I don’t know how the smaller fintechs would be able to.
I do think that Monzo really needs to get an agreement with PO, as we get customers all the time wanting to withdraw/deposit money through us, but can’t.
1 Like
Each time post office tries to pull the “withdraw cash to pay for services” scam. I politely say, “why are you withdrawing money? This is a credit card.” Then they ring the transaction as purchase and it goes through.
2 Likes
It always depends on the type of purchase you are making, and also on the level of training each branch has received.
Yeah, I agree.
Personally, I think LINK should cut them a deal, and if necessary it’s maybe something the government can help LINK make viable by “topping up” the fees paid by the fintechs to be more equivalent to the market rate. That’s if they are serious about both retaining cash for those who want to use it, and see supporting fintechs as good for promoting competition in the banking market.
1 Like
As someone who sees who is using cash the most, I would say that definitely if the fintechs want to be competitive with business banking they need a way to be able to deposit at a secure place (such as a PO) without the fee and the limit there is with PayPoint at the moment.
Currently, Starling is winning over a lot of younger business owners due to the fact that they can deposit money from when they get paid in cash.
1 Like
Potential for us to be going off topic here, but there’s zero reason for fintechs to be competitive when it comes to depositing money for business accounts given how ‘standard’ it is to charge business owners for this (and then some, when banks start charging for electronic transfers too). Even starling charge £3 per deposit up to £1,000 and then 0.3% thereafter, which does make me wonder if they’re offsetting their personal account deposits with a slightly higher business deposit fee.
The issue for fintechs is always going to be that they don’t operate ATMs so they can’t aim to ‘break even’ in ATM fees as they aren’t making any money from providing it to other banking customers. I don’t see a way of solving that unless (a) LINK are going to cut them a deal for a cheaper rate, but then every high street bank will want the same deal; (b) Monzo negotiate directly with the PO, but unless that rate is < £1, customers will only see the fee they pay, increase. I think the current economic climate gives less negotiating power to get close-to-zero fees on customer deposits.
1 Like
This is it in a nutshell!
If the Post Office is processing purchases as cash withdrawals then I’d argue that is fraudulent as well.
What happens when someone uses a credit card? Cash withdrawals show on people’s credit reports, usually incur interest from the moment they’re taken, etc.
I think the function they use is specific to cards that have feature enabled for post office transactions. Thus with credit cards it fails. Ditto monzo card which doesn’t have it specified.
1 Like
This is true, they process the withdrawals via the LINK network (basically an interbank ATM network) rather than through the Visa or Mastercard infrastructure. If a card doesn’t take support LINK, it just fails (like with Monzo, the same would be true for all credit cards).
I’m now intrigued as to how they handle business debit cards that are part of the Link network… Because some business accounts charge for cash withdrawals.
They probably don’t accept them, or they do accept them and it results in the charge being applied?
We do definitely accept withdrawals from those business accounts, I believe they get charged as if it was at an ATM.
1 Like