It’s important to note that those fleeing responsibility are those who campaigned to leave, who promised this would be easy, who spent weeks telling us of the riches outside of the EU, who told us that we would have nations lining up to do deals with us, who spoke of - quote - “the easiest deal in history”.
Those remaining to sort it out? Those who are in charge now? Those who are having the political crap beaten out of them? Those who are now being blamed by the leavers for the mess we are in?
The ones who said all along this would happen.
It’s an unpopular opinion, but I feel for the Prime Minister. She’s buggered either way and frankly this isn’t much her mess to clear up.
David Cameron has scarpered, as has Osbourne, Johnson, Gove, and a wrath of others. Just about the only one who is still vocal is Rees-Mogg and well… he’s living in 1654 anyway so who listens to him.
I’m tired of being polite and calm and smiling when we are doing “the will of the people” - this is going to cause our country a heck of a lot of crap and all for some political ego boosting and fear of UKIP votes (which never materialised anyway). Someone has to stand up and say that this is stupid, self-harming, unnecessary, lose-lose and, by all accounts, not even the “will of the people” anymore.
Indeed. And I include Labour in this. They aren’t a viable opposition and aren’t proposing anything different. I think we’d be in the same position now had they been in power because most of this withdrawing is legal and not really up for much debate.
When a Labour MP asked the Prime Minister today whether she thought in all honesty that this deal was better than remaining in the EU as we are now I felt for her. He knew absolutely that she probably couldn’t answer honestly (which is… no, we are probably better as we are now than this deal) and all it was aiming to do was undermine her and get one step closer to her resigning/being forced out/holding an election.
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I think I’m resigned to it happening, now. Not happy about it, but if the deal on the table is accepted, then at least it won’t be as bad as it could’ve been (a bit like a choice between shooting yourself in the foot, and shooting yourself in the head, I know, but if forced to choose…).
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I think it serves her right for going around saying that no deal would be better than a bad deal, when I think most people knew that the only deal would be a bad deal, and that no deal would be a disaster.
I was, but with it becoming at least slightly possible we might get another vote I am hoping more now.
The shooting analogy is probably accurate, with the exception that there is also a third option of “Or you don’t shoot yourself and just go on your way as you are”.
We just have to ignore the, what I believe now is, vocal minority next to you shouting that you have to shoot yourself - though they wouldn’t dream themselves of doing it.
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Don’t get me wrong. I’d welcome a second referendum. Maybe the analogy should be, you can shoot yourself in the foot, or toss a coin to decide whether to shoot yourself in the head, or not shoot yourself at all. Are you feeling lucky?
All the while we completely ignore the people who made us unnecessarily need to choose where to shoot ourselves and blame the manufacturer of the guns for the damage.
I think it’s best to be cautious when it comes to this sort of statement. I sometimes get the impression that people think the only possible reversal when it comes to the Brexit position is leave to remain. But I voted remain where as now I feel differently. I know about 5 or 6 people who have shifted their view similarly. Although I’ll acknowledge that 6 or 7 people in South Wales doesn’t mean a great deal in the grand scheme of things
I guess what I’m trying to say is that just in the same way that the outcome to the initial referendum was a surprise, I do feel that a lot of the politicians out there who are sensing a shift and are saying things like… “let’s take it back to the people”… could end up being surprised by how a second referendum might unfold. Emphasis on could, of course, as I don’t know as much as the next person. Much is made about how the leave voters didn’t truly know what they were voting for, but again that’s overly clearcut in my opinion.
I think I’d have a bit more pause for thought, if following the potential ousting of May, a true Brexiteer replacement ended up not being able to improve upon the deal she and her team have negotiated. As much as I can appreciate the difficulty of May’s job when it comes to Brexit, I do feel that those on the EU side have seen her as being a bit of a soft touch. I mean, I’ve never been a big fan of Nigel Farage but he’s been ribbing the European Parliament since 1999. I just can’t imagine Barnier enjoying having to negotiate with someone like Farage.
Anyhow, these are just my unfocused ramblings. I suppose it’s nice that we’re all united in a way, even if it is just in frustration
I kinda feel the same way, mentioned earlier in the thread that obviously she hasn’t done the best job but I feel like she is a ‘fall guy’ for this whole Brexit mess when the others that got us in this mess have resigned and are happily living on their riches doing ****-all when everything is falling apart. Just you wait, Boris or some other Brexit minister will be waiting in the wings to take over as prime minister. I don’t know how he still has fans! Dear old Boris my foot
At this point I don’t care as much anymore because I’m tired with arguing with people online about why Brexit isn’t great and it’s a bit too far gone to do a second referendum. I just hope there are concrete plans after Brexit to make the best out of a bad situation but that’s probably too much to hope for.
Well what I’m going by are the various polls and surveys done that suggest the tide has changed somewhat. Not that these are foolproof but it’s not anecdotal. There is more evidence that the public mood has switched slightly than has remained or got stronger towards a leave vote.
If people who want to leave are so convinced the vote would remain the same then there is no fear in holding another vote now there are more facts and less bravado and egos, since we would vote to leave again, right?
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That’s true. But. She’s someone who voted against same sex adoption, against the repeal of Section 28, spent years whipping up hatred towards migrants, deported gay people to violently homophobic countries, and driven disabled and poor people into misery.
So if she has the occasional bad day, I’m fine with that.
That’s more than fair enough, dude. I will admit that I couldn’t help but feel a bit sceptical of Channel 4’s recent polling on the ol’ Brexit issue, but that’s not to say that there isn’t really valid stuff out there.
I’m not actually convinced the vote would remain the same (although I’m not claiming that you stated this). My intention more than anything was to promote a bit of caution regarding the will of the people, because the people can be a surprising bunch at the best of times
And honestly I’m not a staunch Brexiteer (my internal polling on most of these things is always 51-49) to the point where another referendum doesn’t sit well with me. If it’s decided that another referendum is the way to go, then I honestly won’t mind that and what will be will be. That being said, no disrespect intended but the way you’ve put it there at the end (“no fear in holding another vote”) is a bit of a playground way of approaching democracy really.
