Brexit Chat

(Colin Robinson) #376

(Is Santa here yet?) #377

Everything is going to be just fine

(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #378

I’m not sure it’s a question of good or bad negotiators, personally.

I think they were deluded, but in any negotiation, the party with the most to lose is likely to come away with the worst of the deal. A small rock on the edge of a huge trading bloc is always going to have to conform to a large extent to the bloc’s standards.

For all of the huffing and puffing that our politicians are doing, there is only one deal available now, and they’ll have to accept it, or reject it. If they accept, the future is reasonably predictable, if they reject it, they’d better be pretty sure that there will be a second referendum, and that it will get the ‘right’ result this time.

Otherwise, deep doo doo beckons.

All in my very humble opinion.

(Jonathon) #379

It’s important to note that those fleeing responsibility are those who campaigned to leave, who promised this would be easy, who spent weeks telling us of the riches outside of the EU, who told us that we would have nations lining up to do deals with us, who spoke of - quote - “the easiest deal in history”.

Those remaining to sort it out? Those who are in charge now? Those who are having the political crap beaten out of them? Those who are now being blamed by the leavers for the mess we are in?

The ones who said all along this would happen.

It’s an unpopular opinion, but I feel for the Prime Minister. She’s buggered either way and frankly this isn’t much her mess to clear up.

David Cameron has scarpered, as has Osbourne, Johnson, Gove, and a wrath of others. Just about the only one who is still vocal is Rees-Mogg and well… he’s living in 1654 anyway so who listens to him.

I’m tired of being polite and calm and smiling when we are doing “the will of the people” - this is going to cause our country a heck of a lot of crap and all for some political ego boosting and fear of UKIP votes (which never materialised anyway). Someone has to stand up and say that this is stupid, self-harming, unnecessary, lose-lose and, by all accounts, not even the “will of the people” anymore.

(Richard) #380

Yup… she’s literally being thrown under the bus. Whilst everyone else is too busy trying to score political points instead of doing their job.

(Jonathon) #381

Indeed. And I include Labour in this. They aren’t a viable opposition and aren’t proposing anything different. I think we’d be in the same position now had they been in power because most of this withdrawing is legal and not really up for much debate.

When a Labour MP asked the Prime Minister today whether she thought in all honesty that this deal was better than remaining in the EU as we are now I felt for her. He knew absolutely that she probably couldn’t answer honestly (which is… no, we are probably better as we are now than this deal) and all it was aiming to do was undermine her and get one step closer to her resigning/being forced out/holding an election.

(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #382

I think I’m resigned to it happening, now. Not happy about it, but if the deal on the table is accepted, then at least it won’t be as bad as it could’ve been (a bit like a choice between shooting yourself in the foot, and shooting yourself in the head, I know, but if forced to choose…).

(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #383

I think it serves her right for going around saying that no deal would be better than a bad deal, when I think most people knew that the only deal would be a bad deal, and that no deal would be a disaster.

(Jonathon) #384

I was, but with it becoming at least slightly possible we might get another vote I am hoping more now.

The shooting analogy is probably accurate, with the exception that there is also a third option of “Or you don’t shoot yourself and just go on your way as you are”.

We just have to ignore the, what I believe now is, vocal minority next to you shouting that you have to shoot yourself - though they wouldn’t dream themselves of doing it.

(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #385

Don’t get me wrong. I’d welcome a second referendum. Maybe the analogy should be, you can shoot yourself in the foot, or toss a coin to decide whether to shoot yourself in the head, or not shoot yourself at all. Are you feeling lucky?

(Jonathon) #386


All the while we completely ignore the people who made us unnecessarily need to choose where to shoot ourselves and blame the manufacturer of the guns for the damage.

(Nathan) #387

Id also throw in there that we here in NI are the foot whereas england are the hand that flips the coin.

Very nervous times indeed

(Jonathon) #388

Not all of England want the foot to be shot. Just FYI to remember!

(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #389

Is it just me that’s expecting Elon Musk to turn up in Downing Street with a submarine soon. :joy:

(Noel Edmonds Beard Sculptor ) #390

She’ll be gone by the end of next week

(Ryan) #391

People have said this for years but it’s impossible. Labour can’t win a majority and no one can win against her in a leadership contest.

It’s her way and that’s it.

(Leon) #392

Margaret Thatcher thought that way once and look what happened to her.

(Marc Dando) #393

I think it’s best to be cautious when it comes to this sort of statement. I sometimes get the impression that people think the only possible reversal when it comes to the Brexit position is leave to remain. But I voted remain where as now I feel differently. I know about 5 or 6 people who have shifted their view similarly. Although I’ll acknowledge that 6 or 7 people in South Wales doesn’t mean a great deal in the grand scheme of things :sweat_smile:

I guess what I’m trying to say is that just in the same way that the outcome to the initial referendum was a surprise, I do feel that a lot of the politicians out there who are sensing a shift and are saying things like… “let’s take it back to the people”… could end up being surprised by how a second referendum might unfold. Emphasis on could, of course, as I don’t know as much as the next person. Much is made about how the leave voters didn’t truly know what they were voting for, but again that’s overly clearcut in my opinion.

I think I’d have a bit more pause for thought, if following the potential ousting of May, a true Brexiteer replacement ended up not being able to improve upon the deal she and her team have negotiated. As much as I can appreciate the difficulty of May’s job when it comes to Brexit, I do feel that those on the EU side have seen her as being a bit of a soft touch. I mean, I’ve never been a big fan of Nigel Farage but he’s been ribbing the European Parliament since 1999. I just can’t imagine Barnier enjoying having to negotiate with someone like Farage.

Anyhow, these are just my unfocused ramblings. I suppose it’s nice that we’re all united in a way, even if it is just in frustration :sweat_smile:

(Eve) #394

I kinda feel the same way, mentioned earlier in the thread that obviously she hasn’t done the best job but I feel like she is a ‘fall guy’ for this whole Brexit mess when the others that got us in this mess have resigned and are happily living on their riches doing ****-all when everything is falling apart. Just you wait, Boris or some other Brexit minister will be waiting in the wings to take over as prime minister. I don’t know how he still has fans! Dear old Boris my foot

At this point I don’t care as much anymore because I’m tired with arguing with people online about why Brexit isn’t great and it’s a bit too far gone to do a second referendum. I just hope there are concrete plans after Brexit to make the best out of a bad situation but that’s probably too much to hope for.

(Kenny Grant) #395