Prepay Fuel Pumps


(Mr SAMUEL M HART) #1

Sorry if this has been asked. All my searching leads me to the top-up monzo cards. Those are known to have issues with fuel pumps. As no prepay debit cards can work on those afaik.

Which is one of the reasons I waited for current accounts, that and I’m paranoid with startups so wanted financial services protection ;).

However I cannot get the Current Card to work in prepay fuel pumps. Is this a know issue? I did try it as Costco who do have a hatred of MasterCard but the Monzo card works in-store so can’t be there payment handler.
This makes me believe they are acting the same as the top-up cards and may have issues in some stores.

Any info?

Thanks,
Sam.


(Simon B) #2

Hey Sam.

Does your current account card have your name printed on it? Are you using it in the UK or abroad?


(Mr SAMUEL M HART) #3

Yes it has my name printed on it and I’m using it in the UK.

Didn’t they all have names on, I can’t remember what my prepay one looked like. However this was sent after being upgraded to a current account, has my name and embedded card number on.


(Simon B) #4

There’s different configurations, when we initially launched the current account preview we did debit cards with no name on them and they had a slightly different chip configuration.

Did you get any kind of decline message in app or was the card just rejected outright?


(Mr SAMUEL M HART) #5

I had a receipt but left it at a hotel yesterday.

I’ll get another next week, but card just said declined no charge if I recall.


(Hugh Wells) #6

Could you DM me your email address and I’ll take a look when I get in this morning?


(Mr SAMUEL M HART) #7

Sorry was away for work later than expected, however:

I can confirm that the same happens at Morrison’s, card just says cancelled use in kisok only.
Self serve fuel again.

Tried today at 19:40 roughly.


(Allie) #8

Please do report them to Mastercard for this. Ignore this since Monzo doesn’t want them reported and it’s their card. Do report them for any other Mastercards you might have that don’t work!


(Rika Raybould) #9

I’d like to request that we hold off on reporting Morrisons to Mastercard for now. :no_entry:

In general, please report merchants to us before Mastercard. In almost all cases, we can be more friendly and get these situations resolved quicker. Acceptance issues are sometimes fairly complex and the merchant is not always to blame. :sweat_smile:

We have already been in productive talks with Morrisons’ payments processor and as far as I am aware, the new whitelist is rolling out. Due to the nature of their specific setup and procedures, this does take a long time though. The post I’ve linked below provides a time frame of January 2018 for Monzo cards to be supported at Morrisons Pay at Pump systems. :slightly_smiling_face:


(Allie) #10

I changed my post to respect Monzo’s wishes, but isn’t unfriendly exactly what we, as customers, want Mastercard to be to misbehaving merchants?

How is a whitelist even compliant with the honour all cards rule? I’ve looked through the Mastercard Rules and unless I’m missing something, I can see nothing about allowing merchants to only honour cards from banks they like?

P.S. While not a guarantee, in my experience, reporting merchants CAN work, I always report anyone who requires ID (especially common for signature CVM) to Visa and Mastercard, and I’ve had quite a few successes. I have no idea what the networks do with these reports, but hopefully they send the merchant angry letters :laughing:

P.P.S. for the benefit of anyone unfamiliar with the Mastercard Rules, I’m referring to these two requirements Mastercard places on merchants (the second being limitations for Europe on the first to comply with EU policy):

5.10.1 Honor All Cards
A Merchant must honor all valid Cards without discrimination when properly presented for
payment. A Merchant must maintain a policy that does not discriminate among customers
seeking to make purchases with a Card.
A Merchant that does not deal with the public at large (for example, a private club) is
considered to comply with this Rule if it honors all valid and properly presented Cards of
Cardholders that have purchasing privileges with the Merchant.
NOTE: Modifications to this Rule appear in the “Asia/Pacific Region,” “Europe Region,”
“Middle East/Africa Region,” and “United States Region” chapters.

and

5.10.1 Honor All Cards
In the Europe Region, the Rule on this subject is modified as follows.
EU Countries and Norway Only
The following Rules apply with respect to acceptance by Merchants in the EU or Norway of
Cards issued in the EU or Norway.

  1. A Merchant that accepts Mastercard Credit Cards must accept all Mastercard Credit Cards
    issued in the EU or Norway.
  2. A Merchant that accepts Mastercard Debit Cards, including Debit Mastercard Cards, must
    accept all Mastercard Debit Cards issued in the EU or Norway.
  3. A Merchant that accepts Mastercard Prepaid Cards must accept all Mastercard Prepaid
    Cards issued in the EU or Norway.
  4. A Merchant that accepts Maestro Credit Cards must accept all Maestro Credit Cards
    issued in the EU or Norway.
  5. A Merchant that accepts Maestro Debit Cards must accept all Maestro Debit Cards issued
    in the EU or Norway.
  6. A Merchant that accepts Maestro Prepaid Cards must accept all Maestro Prepaid Cards
    issued in the EU or Norway.
  7. A Merchant is not required to accept Maestro Cards as a condition of accepting
    Mastercard Cards, and vice versa.
  8. A Merchant is not required to accept Commercial Cards issued in the EU or Norway.
  9. A Merchant must not refuse to accept any Card on the basis of the identity of the Issuer
    or the Cardholder.
    NOTE: Rule 5.10.1 in Chapter 5 applies with respect to acceptance by Merchants in the EU or
    Norway of Cards issued in countries and territories that are not part of the EU or Norway.
    Debit Mastercard—Non-EU Countries Only, excluding Norway
    The Rule on this subject, as it applies to Debit Mastercard Card acceptance in a country that is
    not part of the EU (excluding Norway), is modified as follows.
    A Merchant in a Debit Mastercard Country that chooses to accept only Debit Mastercard
    Cards issued in the Europe Region must honor all valid Debit Mastercard Cards issued in the
    Europe Region without discrimination, when properly presented for payment.

Put in to plain English, if a merchant takes any European Debit Mastercard, they’re required to take all valid European Debit Mastercards.

Source: https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/rules.html


(Aj) #11

Honestly ive used my monzo card almost anywhere, never had decline issues unless i forgot to unfreeze my card when i was showing people how the app works.

I use my debit card at tesco pumps with no issues, i wish they would make contactless payment terminals at fuel pumps though. I do get that fuel fraud is high and it might never happen.


(Allie) #12

They are available, Tesco doesn’t have them (nor anywhere in the UK I’ve seen), but they definitely exist. They’re being installed quite a few places in the US (but rarely work).

One issue with deployment in the UK would be the general UK lack of online PIN support (remember, only online PIN can work with contactless, offline PIN can’t since the card needs to remain present to validate the PIN) and the £30 CVM waiver limit for contactless.


(Aj) #13

Hm thanks, will have to check it out a bit more.

Just those times when i need to do a quick stop im always fumbling with the chip+pin machine grrr


(Rika Raybould) #14

I’ll speak very generally here based on our experience as an issuer and the preface that I have not directly worked on resolving any of the issues described. As a technical specialist in customer operations, part of my job is a first level triage of all customer-facing issues across Monzo.

Sometimes, the problem is actually on our side, this can be chip settings issues or a processor error. This is increasingly rare nowadays but can still happen, especially for the few thousand people who came to our office to pick up a very first generation preview current account card.

While the network would be a good place to report problems that affect all issuers (as you’ve said, not following cardholder verification rules), reporting Monzo specific issues or issues that greatly affect Monzo to us first is helpful because it gives us a chance to take a look into it and collect incredibly useful information such as photos of terminals through in-app chat or email. In the case of payments over the internet, it also gives us an opportunity to catch false positives that stem from websites having poor handling of billing address verification failures or that require 3D Secure.

We put all of these reports together and try to find the common links. These can be terminal types, the acquirer used by the merchants, a specific franchise owner in the case of a popular coffee brand, and so on. We use this information to quickly triage and target the likely root cause. Aside from a few bad cases, most merchants seem to be happy forwarding a polite request on to whoever handles their payment systems and issues are quickly resolved, it just tends to work better than a formal network complaint and takes significantly less time. :slightly_smiling_face:

As for the honour all cards rule in this case, I believe that it could be argued that they are compliant here as all cards work in the kiosk. From what has been said, these appear to be specific fraud rules for the pay at pump systems. :fuelpump:


(Allie) #15

Definitely makes sense for you to want to see those!

That said, requiring 3D Secure also hits many American cardholders (most US issuers don’t support it), so it’s far from a Monzo-specific frustration (check out FlyerTalk sometime, which is mostly Americans, to see the frustrations they have around 3D Secure. And if Monzo enters the US with a chip and PIN card with offline PIN priority, it’ll be a runaway success with that crowd).

Awesome :smiley: One thing I LOVE about Monzo is how responsive you are. In my experience, issuers tend to be… completely unresponsive to these types of issues. American Express I had to send an email to the head of their US EMV migration project (which he answered and took an extreme interest in) when I got a card that could reliably crash Verifone terminals at Walmarts. Customer service pretty much laughed at the idea it could be possible. Monzo? You actually investigate stuff!

One thing I do wonder with Monzo is if the service code could be the cause of some issues. Obviously, the service code shouldn’t even be getting looked at for chip transactions (Application Usage Control should be), but still, I have to scratch my head and wonder if some poorly programmed terminals don’t like the 221 instead of the 201 that’s far more common. (For non-techies reading it, the 2 in the second position means online authorisation required).

Yes, I thought about that out loud in the other pay at the pump thread… Interesting argument indeed. Personally, I’m not buying it as whilst the Rules don’t specifically call out this situation either way, it sure goes against the spirit of the Rules that all Mastercards should be treated equally. Still, I do agree - I think they have enough of a leg to stand on that they’re following the letter of the Rules. Barely…


(Mr SAMUEL M HART) #16

Well, that was a fair bit of detail in those replies :wink:

I tend to top up at Costco or if I’m in a rush a Morrison’s as it’s on my way to the motorway.
Typical that I’d try the 2 you’re having issues with. Good to hear it’s working at Tesco though.

I will likely keep using my AMEX for fuel anyway just for the 3% cashback, just wanted to try the Monzo to see if the fuel pump issue had been resolved.

Thanks for the whitelist info, feel free to close or leave this open or whatever :slight_smile: