COVID-19 (Coronavirus)

General Chat
4979

I remember the early days of the pandemic, probably on this thread or the mask one, those of us familiar with Japanese culture and the benefits to it suggested masks. We were a minority though, with most dismissing us, because masks won’t help, masks won’t protect you, completely missing the benefit, and the point of the suggestion.

The tune soon changed when they were recommended and subsequently mandated.

I think we all agree propaganda and coercion is bad, and harmful, irrelevant of all other factors. Part of the issue to me feels like it’s less to do with that and more to do with this is the internet, everyone has an opinion, and too many believe they’re an expert in everything.

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4980

Yeah they screwed up by trying to say they didnt help, they (gov’s) were facing massive mask issues themselves and when you see the scalping that went on during that time it didnt help.
They should have taken control of distribution and travel but many govs had poor leaders (trump/boris) so that helped compound the problems.

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4981

I don’t agree neccesarily. Restrictions tend to fail (and therefore come to an end) because they are ignored wholesale by enough of the population.

4982

Just reminds me of the old adage, Opinions are like ars*holes — Everyone’s got one

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4983

Understand where you are coming from, but I do think comparing a respiratory virus with driving a 1.5 tonne lethal weapon is a little extreme.
And risking the wrath of @Revels by mentioning buses, I drive a 10 tonne vehicle that isn’t even fitted with a seatbelt :upside_down_face:

4984

In a way but you could be a lower risk than if you went around for 7 days spreading covid to unvaccinated (no sensible measures like masks/distancing etc) in say London with your work, tube, home, pubs, shops all innocently risking themselves because you dont care, you could have much more contact with direct implications for more.
At least drink drivers realise what they are doing is wrong, quite a few hardcore anti-vax nuts dont and dont care.

Hell think about patient zero for the kent strain of covid, it had to start somewhere and it ripped through a lot of people.

4985

:+1: :+1: :+1:
At least we agree on one thing :slightly_smiling_face:

4986

Specifically with masks, LFT tests etc, I think the argument is pretty simple.

The NHS is on the brink, we are in November, the worst of this year’s crises - by all accounts far worse than anything in the NHS’ history, will be in January - February. Even a small rise in cases could be disastrous.

It’s a careful line of course. You could say, for example, that people who are overweight should lose weight because their condition is likely (as is well proven) to cause significant strain on the NHS. You could say that smokers are far more likely to suffer sever syptoms and/or medical conditions and therefore should be forced to stop - but obviously we don’t want those things, there’s still needs to be an amount of personal choice even where that puts a strain on society.

But we are still in a pandemic, and that warrants special measures that are not usually in place, in order to protect society. Another lockdown - which really is not off the cards at all - will hurt businesses and affect all of our basic freedoms. For that reason, small sacrifices now like mandatory mask wearing is staving off bigger potential problems over winter. I do think vaccination has become over stigmatised and over focussed on, but on the other hand something has to be done or we may end up with a non-functional healthcare system by mid feb (we already may almost have one).

If we had a well funded healthcare system, a low hospitalisation rate, lots of beds, doctors, nurses and an NHS saying ‘sure, bring this on we can cope’, I’d feel very differently, but lets face it that is not the reality we are in right now. If you or me or someone we love gets cancer before the end of the year, and they aren’t able to get basic surgery because all the beds and surgeries are full then we’d probably feel far more strongly about forcing such measures.

Ultimately not everyone can have a choice. Lots of people choosing to not care about covid means other people will probably die unnecessarily when they certainly didn’t choose to. We are still in crises, in a global pandemic, and therefore for a limited time it’s perfectly justifiable to limit some people’s choices in order to preserve life and keep society working.

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4987

If you’ve had anything other than Covid, we’ve effectively had a non-functional healthcare system for the last 20 months. So many friends have had to resort to e.g. paying the excess and going via Bupa, rather than wait forever for minor surgery on the NHS.

There comes a point (and I would say we’ve already passed it) where continued restrictions only succeed in making the problems worse.

My bold - I don’t believe it is justified. At all. It might have been justified in Mar 2020, but now, post-vaccine, in a world where people have “done their bit” by complying with 2020’s restrictions, and willingly taking the vaccine, it really is time the government stepped up and did its bit.

What do we get instead? A moribund NHS and a government drowning in corruption and sleaze.

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4988

Totally agree with this.
The NHS needs funding and not stripped for parts to private companies.
Let’s improve the NHS, so we don’t get a disaster every winter

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4989

With so many broken promises and mixed messages from our illustrious leaders is it any wonder that so many people have such different ideas/opinions.

Maybe what we really need is someone who can get all the information out to the people.

4990

I don’t disagree they need to fund the NHS properly at all. They won’t - they want to see it die so they can sell it off to their friends.

But also it’s too late for this winter. Even if they pumped a huge amount of money in right now, there’d still be a bed shortage and staff shortage for the next several months at least. It takes years to grow the healthcare system, we don’t have that.

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4991

We don’t have that, I agree, but it’s because of the prior state of the NHS. The Covid issue exacerbates the problem, but is not the direct cause. Which is why I don’t agree with restrictions.

4992

I don’t really get how these things directly relate, though. The NHS is underfunded so we should just let it die?

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4993

Not at all. But we fix it by dealing with the issues, not by enforcing sociopathic restrictions on the populace.

4994

I’d love that, but again I just don’t see any fix that would be quick enough to get us through winter. I know £1000 payments to retain staff were mentioned, but they only stop it getting worse.

4995

The latest bill the Tories are shoving through is essentially privatisation by stealth.

It’s the culmination of a long game the Tories have played since they got back in government after the Blair/Brown years. Massively cutting funding and running down services, so they can claim is not working and private business is the only way.

It’s an absolute disgrace.

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4996

Agreed, but imagine the cost of having LFTs every other day. Perhaps unvaccinated people should have to pay to have LFTs every other day!

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4997

Much cheaper than supporting people through hostpital care? That’s why they are already free and being encouraged.

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4998

People aren’t turning up for their booster appointments! So I got my Pfizer booster today. They’re only doing Pfizer for boosters here.

This third dose has really taken it out of me, pretty much straight away. Already feeling a bit off.