Contactless - PIN entry?


(lee) #1

I read somewhere that contactless on average asks for a pin to be entered around 1 in 3 times or at the very least ever so often.

Although I’ve had contactless cards for years I have never been asked to enter a pin. Has anyone else?


(Marco Slater) #2

Nope, never been asked for a pin either. :blush:


(Rika Raybould) #3

Never on a Mondo card. I recall this used to be a thing for repeated offline transactions though? Not heard of anything like that recently.


(Caleb Wong) #4

Had this before with my HSBC card. But I think it was quite a while ago.


(Jayant) #5

I think it asks you for your PIN if the last x transactions have all been contactless and the PIN has not been used in a while - say at an ATM or a regular machine.

Happens to me all the time with my TSB 5% contactless card.


#6

that is if they are constantly used for just contactless, i was told each time you make a valid chip and pin or atm transaction it starts that counter again…thats what other bank said so maybe it is the same with Mondo


#7

I thought they would ask for chip and pin if you made a set amount of offline transactions. Might be wrong though


(Adam) #8

In theory all :mondo: transactions are online which is why you get the instant notifications. If they where offline, it would take 2/3 days for the transaction to be shown.

As what others have said above, I believe it is every x number of transactions without cardholder verification (i.e. PIN transaction) with x being a dynamic number


(Nick Perry) #9

Nothing like resurrecting an ancient thread…

…but has this behaviour changed? I was bamboozled by being asked to enter a PIN for a contactless transaction at Leon tonight. So confused that I hit cancel, and I tried again. And it asked for a PIN again. So I cancelled once more and inserted the card in the chip reader instead and entered my PIN because I was sufficiently unfamiliar with the concept of contactless and PIN to believe it was a thing.


#10

There is:
• Contactless
• Contactless and signature (I have come across this in Chelmsford at a petrol station)
• Contactless and PIN (I have used this abroad in a café)

Though I have heard in some Asian countries of people doing contactless and PIN and still having to sign the receipt!


(Nick Perry) #11

Well, Chelmsford… nuff said!


(Allie) #12

What was the value? Under £30 should have been covered by the UK contactless CVM waiver. Over £30 the CVM order on the Monzo card is online PIN, signature, no CVM.

I’m surprised at two things:

  1. That Leon supports online PIN, it’s very rare in the UK.
  2. That (if it was under £30), CVM waiver failed.

Actually, almost nowhere in the UK supports online PIN (unless it’s improving), so this would be the expected behaviour over £30 (and likely to lead to a decline… @MIROW, I’m surprised Monzo approved it! That’s awesome, tho… but was it actually over £30, or was this a CVM waiver setup wrong issue?).

BTW, if you really want to see CVM waiver go wrong, go to the US, where it’s a total disaster. Merchants setup CVM configuration all over the place. Some have no waiver, even on tiny contactless. Others will waive PIN (shouldn’t happen on contact, really, though one network allows it with no liability - I forgot which one) on small amounts. Some have PIN totally disabled (offline and online). Some will ‘waive’ signature CVM by just ignoring the signature slip. Some will try to force CVM fallback by hitting enter at the PIN prompt (most US banks will approve this, many foreign ones won’t).


#13

With the BP garage in Chelmsford (a BP franchise one not BP owned) I have tried with various UK cards including Starling, Handelsbanken, etc. and when spending over £30 you don’t insert the card just tap the contactless and sign the printout. The first time it threw me as I expected contactless and pin not signature. It surprised the cashier as everyone else had put card in reader if above £30 and entered pin, I was the first she had seen attempted contactless above £30. But it was not one off, so I do contactless and signature each time I go there.


#14

In Holland some stores have “chip and dip” where you just stick your card in a reader and pull it out again without entering the pin if the amount is low value


(Allie) #15

Same as the US, but I don’t know the rules for Holland. I know Mastercard does not allow this in the US - offline PIN is never waived. Visa allows it though (I remembered which it was). But then again, Visa has no PIN liability shift at all in the US, so it’s perfectly valid with Visa to disable PIN totally and there’s no liability risk. Merchants that disable PIN tend to do it for all networks, and it is at their own risk for everyone else.

Does Monzo approve this everywhere (whose terminals allow tap >£30 which should be most places now), or is that BP station unique? Also, have you ever seen online PIN (such as contactless + PIN) supported in the US. I’m amazed Leon does, especially since they’re Barclaycard terminals…


(Patrick) #16

I’ve got cards that I’ve only ever entered the PIN for once, on the initial transaction to activate. Then only used contactless, literally hundreds of transactions - and I’ve never been asked for the PIN.


(Allie) #17

Even that isn’t needed for many cards anymore.


(Nick Perry) #18

A princely £22.20. Most unusual set of affairs.


(Allie) #19

Thanks! Definitely sounds like the contactless CVM waiver didn’t work right. If I had to take a wild guess, I’m guessing the terminal is programmed to waive signature, but not online PIN, and they probably only recently started accepting online PIN. But that’s wild speculation… @RichardR do you have any insight?

Was this the semi-integrated Barclaycard Ingenico iPP 350 terminals most Leons have, or was something different (like the ones the SSP franchises have)?