Brexit Chat

Absolutely agree. If people are in favour of democracy, then we should all be in favour of a 2nd referendum to vote on the terms.

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David Cameron (on the steps of Downing St) and George Osbourne & co later on were very clear — Brexit would mean out of the Single Market, out of the Customs Union, ECJ jurisdiction etc. I voted remain, but I don’t understand it when people make this point. The politicians of the time literally said over and over what it would mean before people voted. The other ‘flavours’ have come after the actual referendum as far as I can tell.

I think we can all agree however, the whole thing is absolute shambles :man_facepalming:t3::zipper_mouth_face:

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That’s assuming the EU agrees to the terms we propose

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Yeap, which they obviously won’t, it’s a negotiation. The UK Government should be going to Brussels demanding the world, with a view of settling at the point at which they’ve apparently ‘collectively agreed’.

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Voted remain (I’m from a Commonwealth nation, living in the UK) but I think was badly handled and there wasn’t enough turnout on both sides, and there wasn’t enough education on what the vote really meant. There should have been more time (instead of 2 months) given to properly educate- a democracy only works if everyone knows the consequences of what they are voting for. That’s why I really dislike how US tries to champion democracy as the best way of governing- it didn’t work for Arab Spring and doesn’t even work in the US/ UK.

Plus, David Cameron throwing his support publicly behind Remain reinforced some people’s decision to vote Leave because they did not want to support the Conservative party. Arguably Remain was seen as a result that only educated/ rich people would pick and some poorer areas with less funding/ development were prime targets for Brexit campaigning.

Farage had already anticipated to lose and wanted to call for a second referendum if the result was too close. If you look at the interviews on the day of the result some had zero clue about the magnitude of what they were voting for. A student interviewed in Manchester was in shock. Said he voted to Leave but never expected it to actually happen. Another said they were happy they “took back control” and they didn’t want any more Muslims :thinking: idk what they thought the EU was about. A Singapore student was interviewed too and he voted to leave because he thought it was unfair that European students enjoyed more benefits vs international students :woman_facepalming:t2: # selfish

Tbh I was angry about the decision and how it was executed but I’m not as bothered any more since it doesn’t affect me directly- it only causes me grief debating about it online so I try not to talk about it anymore. The rich won’t really be affected by this, whether they wanted to remain or not, and if things go poo they can just zip off elsewhere or move businesses. It’s going to hit the working class hardest and some places can no longer rely on funding from the EU. If the govt can negotiate a favourable deal maybe it’ll soften the blow a little, but I think the EU is determined to make an example of the UK. It’ll be tough. Sure, the UK will pull through, but they’ve just made things unnecessarily hard for themselves.

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This is a very big factor to the “leave” campaign (Which broke election rules in the first place - Electoral law has been broken – this is a fight for the soul of our democracy | Electoral reform | The Guardian)

One friend of mine voted leave because “He wanted to see what would happen” - I’m all for people voting for what they believe in, but on something as important as this for people to not really know what they’re voting on is a massive problem.

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I would leave my vote exactly the same.

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I guess we’re spiralling beyond the ‘Would you change your vote’ question…

…and Ben brings us back on course :smiley:

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A democracy will never fully work then. The likes of Love Island will not strain people’s thinking process to the same extent as as working out which referendum promises are true or false.

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There’s a lot of truth in that.

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Yeap, and the fascinating thing is the places that benefit most from EU funding seem to be the places with the highest leave vote (I’m from one of them) and will ultimately be hit the hardest.

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Quick code of conduct reminder. Political discussions are fine but not as a personal soapbox to air political opinions

Just in case it heads in that direction at some stage :wink:

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Considering how much money goes into political spin I think it’s not supposed to. Misinformation and scare-mongering on both sides imo. But you can’t exactly do a vote with a best of three. I think making it mandatory to vote like Australia or Canada (? Can’t remember the exact countries) would be best and people can’t really complain about it being “not what we wanted!!”

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One last comment from me.

Brexit demonstrates why voting should be mandatory and the public more educated on politics.
The result may have been the same but at least it would have been truly representative of the nation. Rather than 27% (or whatever It was).

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I am also in favour of granting voting rights to those who have real stake in the country they live in and its future. The current solution with granting voting rights to transitory voters by the fact of their country being part of Commonwealth is not ideal.

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Sure. And when the fundamentals changed such as at Maastricht I’d expect to vote again…

I’m a EU citizen living in Scotland. Couldn’t even vote even though it affects me directly.

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Whilst I can understand EU citizen frustrations (and I have a fair few frustrated friends), you aren’t allowed to vote in UK general elections either.

Just as a UK citizen wouldn’t be allowed to vote in German national elections (assuming you’re from Germany with the user name :slight_smile: )

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It’s never been about who is in 10 Downing St choosing about how the economy goes or oil exports but being able to vote in a referendum that could/could have potentially kick me out of the country and severely affect my rights while here

The same way I was able to vote on the Indy Referendum!!

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Granting voting rights to individuals has always been about ensuring fairness. Denial of fair treatment led to social unrest in the 60s in the US southern states or South Africa in the 90s.

If a student from Solomon Islands on a one-year postgraduate course in the UK is given the right to vote in Brexit Referendum while Portugese national who lived here for 20 years and paid taxes throughout that period is not, I call it unfair.

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