PayM Support


(Gavin Morrison) #1

Are there any plans to support Paym in future?

For those who don’t know, Paym is a system supported by the majority of banks in the UK that allows payments to be sent using mobile numbers as identifiers instead of bank account numbers and sort codes. Barclays (via Pingit) even allow you to use your Twitter handle as an identifier.

Apologies if this has been raised already, but searching ‘paym’ returns every topic with ‘payment’ in the title!

Gavin


The Next Step: Current Accounts!
(Rika Raybould) #2

The overall feature is called “Send Money” or “P2P payments” in the Monzo world. Right now it’s just Monzo user to Monzo user but there was talk about PayM in the future. PayM requires an account number and sort code so it won’t happen until current accounts are launched sadly. Take a scroll through the sneak peak thread for some previous discussion on this.


(Frank) #3

I am hoping when payM is implemented it is merged with standard payments. All banks have implemented as a separate payment system. I think it would work better if you are asked when sending a payment if you want to enter a sort code etc ‘or’ phone number (direct or from contacts). If you choose phone number then you are using payM, otherwise it’s a standard faster payment. The rest of the flow can then be standardised.


(Mike) #5

Will Paym be supported by the new Monzo Current Account on launch?


(Andy Little) #6

From what I’ve read it’ll be pretty bare bones on launch, so probably not.


(James Billingham) #7

Paym is actually very simple - it’s just a system which links mobile numbers to a normal account number and sort code. The actual payment happens the same way as any other.

As such, I would not be surprised if this was supported on day-one. If it isn’t supported immediately, I’d expect it to be very soon afterwards.


(Andy Little) #8

I assume Monzo just have to register with the service and plug in to an API?


#9

Agreed, the fact that I can’t pay anyone that doesn’t use Monzo is very limiting right now. Paym would go a long way to solving this.

I really the way that we can receive money from non Monzo users. A similar mechanism for payout out (either paym, bank details or anything really) would be great


(Rich) #10

I wanted to ask about Monzo integration with PAYM. I don’t think it’s been covered elsewhere; but it’s the legacy banks’ attempt at making mobile payments easier. You can just send money to someone’s (linked) phone number rather than having to request bank details.

I realise monzo does this already internally, but I’d be interested to know if this was something that had been considered to improve transfers for other accounts outside the monzo universe.


(Alex Sherwood) #11

It took me a while to find this topic too :wink: but it looks like the question’s been answered here.

Now that the post’s been bumped maybe we’ll hear from the team about this, if they’ve decided either way.


(Rich) #12

I did look thoroughly, I promise! Thanks for linking threads thoug.


(Andre Borie) #13

How does enrolling your phone number works for PayM? There are significant security issues with SS7 that allow two way text and call interception so it will have to be secure against an attacker even if he has full control of the target number (don’t allow registering a phone to a new account if the number is already registered to any other account).


(Frank) #14

My understanding is there is a single payM database that has your phone number and designated sort code and account number associated with it.

Then when making a payment you are doing a lookup on this database with the phone number you are searching for and it pulls back the persons name to validate it’s the correct user (or advises the phone number is not registered). Then when you send the payment it goes the the associated account details for that number.

I think you can still send money to a number not registered and that number gets a text message saying there are funds waiting for them but they need to register. And the funds are returned if not claimed. Not 100% sure on this bit, could be wishful thinking on my part :joy:

I suspect Monzo does something very similar with contacts but has implemented it in a much better way (you can see who is effectively registered for the service without having to guess by entering a number blindly). PayM could have done something similar but I imagine privacy concerns would have put a stop to it. :roll_eyes:

I think banks need to embrace the ‘opt in’ model for privacy. For example; yes I don’t mind people knowing I have an account with Monzo, yes I don’t mind my transactions in push notifications, yes I don’t mind my balances being viewable without authentication, etc. And if people do mind then they don’t opt in. Simples :man_shrugging:t2:


Paym support for CA
(Jamie 🏳️‍🌈) #15

Great explanation of how Paym works. This is the only bit that’s slightly wrong. If you try to pay someone using Paym and they’re not registered, you simply cannot complete the payment. Paym tells you the number is not valid and there is no holding of funds whilst the recipient registers.

The intended recipient does get an unsolicited text from Paym telling them that someone has tried to pay them using their phone number, but as the vast majority of people don’t know what Paym is, the text looks just like a phishing fraud, which is not ideal. I think the sender should be prompted to suggest the recipient joins up to Paym instead, so the recommendation comes from a trusted contact.

Other than that I’m a big Paym proponent because it solves the issue with having to check and double check easily-mistyped account numbers and sort codes. We’re much more used to entering phone numbers, and most of the time they’re already verified because they’re already stored in our phone alongside a name. Plus the system presents the name of the account when sending a payment, something which doesn’t happen with account details. Any new contact number can be easily checked with a quick call or text.

I’m hoping :monzo: Monzo auto-signs users up to Paym upon account opening, unless the number is already registered elsewhere, in which case they could suggest switching the registration.


(Andre Borie) #16

Nope, please no auto-registration. Make it optional.


#17

That sounds very scary and fraudster-like behaviour. It will probably work really successfully,:neutral_face:

…and I read further:

Thank goodness.


(Rika Raybould) #18

This depends on the bank. Some will fail out of the payment while others will give you the option to invite the other person. :slightly_smiling_face:

PayM is required to be optional, especially as you may want to register your phone number with a different bank.


(Jamie 🏳️‍🌈) #19

Yeah, maybe not auto-sign up, but at least ask the question in plain terms “do you want people to be able to pay you using your phone number?”

Paym should really be an ‘as standard’ feature on all new UK bank accounts.

Didn’t really express myself clearly.


(MikeF) #20

Funny, I’ve never used it and can’t see a situation that I ever will. I guess it may really take off but I’ve always thought of it as a very small niche.


(Jamie 🏳️‍🌈) #21

But as an identifier of an account into which to send funds it’s objectively easier than account number/sort code, and pre-verified for the sender as I described earlier. So it should really become the de facto standard. It’s also portable if the account holder switches banks.

I only really think it hasn’t taken off because it’s not pushed as the standard by the banks.