Local British languages


(Dylan) #1

Salutations my new community, I would like to offer a humble suggestion? As a new bank and the Welsh Government will introducing a bill in the Senedd (Welsh Parliament) that:

Large public bodies/groups, business which are plc or ltd, corporations,

will need services to be bilingual. As a fluent Welsh speaker and literate I’d be happy to help. Diolch :smiley:


Local British languages - Some Further Thoughts
#2

There are more people in the UK speaking Polish, Hindi and Turkish than Welsh. It would make more sence to support those languages than Welsh.


(Dylan) #3

Welsh is my first language and Wales is bilingual nation and Welsh & English have equal standing! Where as 20yrs ago pre-devolution in UK but it was a recognised as living minority language on the verge of disappearing by the EC/EU 10yrs before! Welsh is even on the UK passport! In 1980 the year I was born, where 17% Lingual and Literate as there everyday 1st language and + 2% Understood 3% monolingual, now it’s about 23% are Bilingual and Literate, +9% Understand linguistically 0% Monolingual of a population of 3.2m. That’s just under a 1mil or 1/3 of the population.

If you compare it to Irish/Gaeilge in the Republic of Ireland it has 2 Official State languages out of a population of over 5m only 2.2% or 100k+ Speaks Gaeilge as a everyday language so both languages are used the all branches of government and public services.

If you go back a 100yrs with a population of 2m, 35% were Monolingual 15% of that were Literate and 12% Bilingual and Literate!

We will see :grinning:


#4

I am all for the country of Scotland and the principality of Wales supporting their historic languages but whilst a source of national pride it has to be admitted that they are effectively the language of certain regions and in most regions English is the mother tongue. While language can be a source of identity it is also a source of division and discrimination. I don’t think Monzo should be involved in the provision or translation of it’s app into all the languages our users may speak, not only due to added customer support issues (in app and telephone support in Cornish for example) but with certain foreign languages it could be seen to be making a political statement if it supports a language from a contentious nation, former nation or wannabe nation.

From a technical standpoint the solution is to have a separate standalone language file that is not baked into the app. Then anyone who wishes to translate the app into French, Esperanto, Klingon, etc may do so.

However there can be issues handling certain languages such as Arabic which go Right to Left instead of Left to Right, or non Latin script such as Korean or Mandarin. Having worked on a project where we created the first bilingual Arabic/English electronic underwriting system I know there were far more challenges than just the language translation, such as field length, character set display, etc. so Monzo technical guys will endoubtedly have to do more testing work using any translation files to see if they trigger any additional errors.

And if your program or app contains translated text you as a company want to check any translations not only for not only being a right word but the correct one in the context, in order to protect your reputation and avoid any liabilities.

So while multiple language provision is something I support, it may be more complex than users assume with possible technical issues as well as the simple translation of every little bit of text displayed in every menü, button or error message.

I think Monzo would need to think about:

  1. technically how is the best way to build it
  2. what extra time and resources may be needed for testing new app versions with the various language varients
  3. if supporting certain languages will this create support issues with users with little grasp of English using a translated variant of the app needing customer support and if so will Monzo recruit certain language staff, e.g. Urdu, Spanish etc
  4. how will Monzo tackle liability issues, will they take responsibility for what is displayed and any instruction given by a translated varient of their app or say the user is responsible for any error, will they have disclaimers in the app, or contract independent translators to check any user generated translations prior to their use by the wider community

It will be great to hear Monzo’s thoughts on this.


(knows someone who knows Tom quite well) #5

We might run out of 'L’s :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#6

Correction: “National Assembly” not parliament.


(Thomas Welton) #7

Seems unnecessarily offensive to me
The guy made a four line “humble suggestion” and you came back with a seven paragraph rant.
Even if more people do speak Polish, Poland is not one of the Sovereign states of the UK and all other banks and most organisations in the UK offers services to bilingual speakers.

If this user has asked for Monzo’s communications to be offered in braille I doubt you’d have been so dismissive, yet it seems very easy to dismiss Welsh users as an irrelevance.


#8

As a Welsh person, I believe it would be completely unnecessary for Monzo to provide bilingual services in Welsh. I’m sure their time and effort could be better spent elsewhere.


(Dylan) #9

Haha Its more likely for us to run out of 'C’s :smiley:


(Dylan) #10

Wales Act 2017, the Assembly is expected to rename itself the Welsh Parliament, (Welsh: Senedd Cymru), It is expected that members of the renamed body will be known as Members of the Welsh Parliament (MWPs), or Aelodau Senedd Cymru (ASCau) in Welsh.


(Dylan) #11

Ti’n siarad Cymraeg fel iaith gyntaf neu ail-iaith??


#12

I have already in other threads supported various posts suggesting other languages, and indeed earlier in this thread expressed my support [quote=“MIROW, post:4, topic:12620”]
multiple language provision is something I support
[/quote] If you bother to read my above post rather than get all mouthy you will see I discuss the issues involved. I have worked on dual and multilanguage systems so know some of the issues that can be faced. It is all very well saying you want Welsh, Spanish, Yiddish etc and think it just a matter of translating but how it works behind the scenes and the additional manpower required for testing and potential customer services demands this may raise are something that should be looked at


#13

Yn bersonol fy Nghymraeg yn wael iawn.


(Dylan) #14

A right is that why the language of finance is English & Mandarin?


(Dylan) #15

Wel os ti yn gallu ysgrifennu yn y Gymraeg dwi meddwl dy fod rhugl imi,


#16

My son is learning Mandarin as his fourth language and it looks really interesting


(Dylan) #17

I bet it is and cool


#18

Aeth fy nhad i’r ysgol yng Nghymru, ond yn bersonol rwyf yn unig wedi ceisio dysgu Almaeneg, Ffrangeg, Gwyddeleg, a Rwsia. Estoneg yn amhosibl.


(Thomas Welton) #19

I did read your above post, and as you can see from my profile we read a lot of each others posts.
But the fact that you use language like this is the reason I chose to reply. It seems unnecessarily antagonistic

So have I. I’m a full stack developer working for a company that provides it’s services in languages including English and Welsh.

I think Monzo have been pretty clear that in the long run they want to be a global company. So eventually multilingual will be something they support.


#20

and how they go about that is something best thought about now rather than later, as they can decide between separate language versions of their app, one app with language options in the settings, or an app with a separate language file. Currently they are trying to create a modular type app with separate parts that can be amended or updated without impacting other parts of the whole. This may work well with a language module that could be replaced with another language prior to generating a new version for distribution.

While in this and other threads the language issue has arisen nobody has discussed the important points of how it would be done technically (particularly with different scripts and reading directions), the extra testing requirements, and how extra language options in the app could or will lead to a need to support such languages in COps. I therefore felt it valid to raise the issues.