Formula 1

General Chat
141

Personally I don’t see how there is another interpretation, by default there is no overtaking under the safety car, therefore that message never gets posted because lapped cars wouldn’t unlap themselves until told to by the race director which is where you get the message “Lapped cars may now overtake”. Therefore if you post “Lapped cars will not be allowed to overtake” that means they cant unlap themselves behind that safety car and that’s a decision the race director has made and is a decision they are allowed to make, however it’s not a temporary message like oh they can’t unlap themselves for now but they might be able to in a few laps

I can’t say with a 100% certainty but yes I’m fairly sure yes they come directly from him.

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142

Hmmm. You have a point I hadn’t considered. Humbug.

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143

What happened there? Did he crash into the hot coral bus?

Beep beep! :joy:

144

Except they weren’t. This rubbish about Article 15.3 giving Masi carte blanche to do what he liked with the safety car is completely spurious - 15.3 is about the race director’s (i.e. Masi’s) authority relative to other officials.

Also, the concept of some regulations “overriding” others is not provided for in the sporting regulations (no matter what that steward’s judgement says).

Except the rules say that “any cars that have been lapped” are required to pass cars on the lead lap & the safety car. In this context, this means all lapped cars. So the FIA can allow all cars to overtake, or none. There is no provision in the sporting regulations for only certain cars to be cherry-picked to overtake.

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145

Can’t say I agree with the result and rule change by Masi but I guess that’s the way cookie crumbles with F1 now.

146

As a (once hardcore, now) casual fan, I really enjoyed that last lap and thought it was a great finish to decide the title.

Having no skin in the game, I think it’s great to see a new winner. There’s nothing more offputting than one dominant contender year upon year.

Hamilton and Mercdes have been so dominant for so long, just being in real contention was a huge deal for Verstappen / Redbull, let alone winning.

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147

I don’t have a problem with Verstappen winning (although as a Hamilton fan I’d obviously rather be did) but to make a mockery of the rules of the sport and for Max to win in the way he did ruins both the sport and his championship. For me at least.

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148

That’s the benefit of being a casual fan!

I don’t pay enough attention to F1 these days to have a grasp of the minutae that will rile up the real fans.

From my bird’s eye view, it’s still 90% whoever has the best car and competition at the top has been weak for a long time.

149

Although I see the point, I think people forget that unlike Schumacher, Hamilton hasn’t always had the fastest car. There were a few years where Ferrari had a better car, but their drivers (particularly Vettel) made too many mistakes. And this year Red Bull had the better car for the most part.

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150

I don’t watch enough to have a strong view on this. But IMHO Hamilton is a good enough driver to overcome a better car if his ride is within touching distance.

No idea how much stronger Vettel’s Ferrari was so can’t comment.

151

In both of the the past two races Race Control seemed to be making it up as they went along. Once favouring Hamilton and once favouring Verstappen. IMO the FIA need to take a careful look at what has happened both in Saudi and Abu Dhabi.

I think the end result (drivers’ championship to Max and constructors’ to Mercedes) is a fair reflection of the season (others will certainly disagree) but both races were at times a complete shambles.

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152

I’m a casual F1 watcher, by which I mean I’m not fussed who would have won the championship. From a neutral point of view its was a shit show.

To me, restarting a race from behind a safety car shouldn’t be open to interpretation or change, there are rules that state exactly how it should be done. And the rules needn’t be changed on the fly.

I’ve seen different people state what should have been done.
1 - Hamilton should have pitted and changes his tyres. If that were to happen Max wouldn’t have pitted, giving him track position. Had the rules then been followed Max would then have won, had they been implemented as they did, it would have been 50/50 with advantage Max with track position.

2 - Had the rules have been followed, it should have finished under the safety car. Nobody wanted that, but them the rules (or not as was the case).

3 - If Netflix really needed a grand finale, then they could have red flagged it, and allowed a restart with a 1 - 5 lap shootout, both on fresh tyres.

Had the safety car come in one or more laps earlier, fair play to Max, extremely bad luck for Lewis. Im sure if it took one less lap to clear the debris, normal safety car procedure would have been followed. And that’s what made it a bitter pill.

If I were Max, that would be a hollow victory for me, deep down it’'s probably how he feels too. I’m sure he will take the parties, the pay cheque and his name in the hall of fame, though. On the flip side, if it does get overturned, an 8th world title won in the court room is pretty shit also.

On the whole, the decision making of a single guy has ruined an otherwise exciting season.

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153

Well said

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154

As a result of this, some or all of these should happen:

1 - The result gets overturned
2 - Rules to be updated to clarify this exact scenario
3 - The race director needs to go

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155
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156
  1. 0%
  2. 100%
  3. 100%
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157

I think Merc need to continue the appeal, not for the purpose of it getting overturned but just to make a point, we all know the results won’t change but the FIA needs to.

I came across this earlier and remember it now, how contradictory from the man himself:
Masi explains reason for late Eifel GP Safety Car – Motorsport Week

Despite Norris’ car being recovered quickly , the Safety Car stayed out for five laps, which drew complaints from some drivers.

However at that stage leader Lewis Hamilton had lapped all bar his nearest four opponents.

”There’s a requirement in the sporting regulations to wave all the lapped cars past,” Masi said.

“From that point, it was position six onwards that were still running [on the lead lap], so between 10 or 11 cars had to unlap themselves.

“Therefore the Safety Car period was a bit longer than what we would have normally expected.”

Michael Masi everybody

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158

I saw that on twitter earlier and wanted to post it here, closed the tab by mistake and when I went back to try and find it, twitter and it’s refusal to show chronologically meant it wasn’t to be seen.

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159

Lewis is a class act. I hope some of his detractors see this and reconsider some of their criticism of him.

Mercedes effectively have no choice - they have to keep going with their appeal. The implications for the future are too great to just drop it and brush everything aside. Even if at this point they don’t want or expect the result to get overturned, it’s still important to:

  • make sure the freaking rules are consistent for everyone in future
  • make Masi accountable for what he did.

I said it yesterday and I’ll say it again, what we got was the one thing we didn’t want - the result of the championship decided by outside intervention. Because, and make no mistake, Masi actively intervened here. Had he simply followed the rules, though, and Hamilton finished behind the safety car? There’s no active intervention there, simply an application of long-standing rules and procedures. It would’ve been a slightly disappointing finish, but it would’ve been one that everyone could’ve understood and accepted (except for perhaps whiny Spice Boy). The integrity of the competition would’ve still been sound. But now? Masi has blown it out of the water, and this is so, so disappointing.

And we’ve only got three months until the first race of the next season to clear all this s*** up :grimacing:

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160

I’m sure I saw something about a ceremony soon ( :tm: :eyes:) and it has to be all finalised by then? Or is that the current appeals and if it goes to The Court of Arbitration for Sport then that doesn’t apply?