Shared Pots


#76

Surely there could be not just one solution but two.

One a shared joint account where a proportion belongs to each party and if one dies the others still access what is left but can’t access the remainder unless probate completed, and if the person quits instead of dies they can take their proportion with them.

The other a more traditional partners joint account where they both have 100% access rather than only access to their proportion and if one partner dies the other automatically has access to the full amount in the account.

Plus there should be a signatory option of:
• Any/one signatory
• Both/two signatories
• All (three or more) signatories

And that is I think going to be the most complex bit, particularly when an account shared by more than two parties


(Jamie 🏳️‍🌈) #77

Presumably Bunq comes from a country where paying a monthly fee for a bank account is commonplace and culturally accepted.

Bunq will have a difficult time selling that concept to British consumers.


(Nathan Dudgeon) #78

I think it’s fantastic, and can’t wait to try. I’d be interested in more information about where the account shows up (i.e. it would be good if all the joint holders can have access to it in their own monzo app), and who is contributing/withdrawing (so everyone can see what is happening to it).

Some are concerned about the ability to block one of the account holders from draining it etc, but I want to add my voice as one who isn’t concerned about that. I’ll just be using them to share with my wife for bills and saving for holidays etc.

What would be very helpful is an extension on the number of pots we can have on the app (current limit is around 10 or something).


(lee) #79

:thinking:

and seconds?

Bunq are coming to the UK - but its apparently as low priority and monzo providing joint or second accounts :smirk: There is a thread on their forum about it but its not in English
But i agree - seems they have priorities pretty spot on for their account.

And i keep saying i love monzo - but if the legacy adds in real time notifications i’m not likely to stick around for the emoji’s, no interest pots and a forum.

Well not everyone feels the same! I like monzo but i’m not blindly loyal to them. If someone does a better job and more quickly then bring it on.
The issue they have is

  1. the longer time goes on,
  2. the more new entrants which offer this
  3. the improvement of legacy banks
    will equal a greater likelihood of people leaving monzo AND make it more difficult to attractive new users - which also won’t be good for profitability.

But on the flip - a bank account without second currents or joints is really any different from the prepaid card.

Who has more then one account with a legacy which they don’t pay for?

My uninformed opinion still thinks its pretty dumb to have a bank that hasn’t figured second accounts and joints out yet. The sooner :monzo: get on with sorting this the better. Its a glaring omission.


(Emma (still not the app)) #80

What’s the advantage for Monzo of giving one person 2 accounts? Twice the cost to maintain but how do they make money on it? They could charge a fee but wouldnt everyone just open another account elsewhere (which is free) and would give you exactly the same functionality as 2 accounts with the same provider? Also there doesn’t seem to be a big demand for it so why waste time at this stage developing a solution to something that’s only relevant to a few people?

They’ve said they’re working on a solution for joint accounts but since current accounts are still new I’d imagine that’s a higher priority.


(lee) #81
  • They move away from being a top up/prepay card
  • They get to serve a customer need.
  • They’d have more people willing to solely use them.

What exactly is it costing them more for? Another card is about it which i’d happily pay for if it was such a big issue.

Arguably they’d gain a lot more by having me use them as a sole bank. They’d have more money deposited - and done via bacs. All i do is top it up via apple pay which costs them money.

It’s around 25% of people in the UK who have more than one account, so its not that small.

I know monzo share numbers on total amount of current accounts. But would be really interesting to see something along the lines of

  • % of accounts receiving salary payments
  • average balance
  • number of accounts with 1 or more active direct debits
  • number of accounts with an active pot
  • transactions per day or month
    (though assume they never would for competitive reasons)
    I imagine those would be less impressive hence this type of thread.

Whilst i’m sure its increasing i’d be surprised if more then 1 in 4 people are currently using monzo are their main current account due to still being too much of a compromise in some key areas.


(Kevyn) #82

I doubt it would be twice the cost.

Whilst the whole background architecture of the current account costs a lot, it would scale so 1 extra account wouldn’t add much to the overall running costs. What would add to the cost is an additional card as payments are per card cost. However you wouldn’t use a second account card the same as your main card and with that, you wouldn’t need a second card that often or even a second card at all.

Of all my banks, it probably costs Monzo the most to run my account and it has the least amount of my money sat in it (legacy about £2,000 and Monzo £43 atm) but carries out the most of my transactions/ATM withdrawals etc. If Monzo offered multiple accounts I would probably have that £2,000 in it as well as my house deposit (so add another £15,000).

I bring up Bunq a lot but they get it right. Multiple accounts (each with an IBAN (so a sort code/account number)) and a card you can attach to any of them you like. Bunq does cost a monthly fee for this but you can get the multiple accounts for free if you know how (although free is without a card). This shows it is the card which is the cost problem for banks not accounts.


#83

Card is definitely the cost. Monese only have a free card with a premium pay monthly account, with their free account if you want a card it is an optional extra and has a 4.95 fee towards the cost of the card.


(Tim Banting) #84

Definately!


(Tim Banting) #85

This really shows promise. I have a partner where I would like to offer a shared pot- either with a physical card or virtual pay card. It would help with bill sharing, eating out, every day expenses.

Also, would like to explore using this as a pocket money account for my daughter? This would be excellent- especially if I can see a transaction list.

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.


#86

Such a great feature! Really excited to see it happening.


#87
  1. Why would you leave something like that so late?! Just doesn’t seem responsible. But yeah I get your point. I also think that if it’s that important to order something between a group, don’t leave it so late. Make sure you have time to get all the money and then order. Just makes sense to me?

  2. I reckon there should be different rules if it’s for a couple. A joint account like pot, rather than a group. More than 2 people and you need everyone’s confirmation, a couple or a setting that you can change to say you trust the people aren’t gonna take all the money will solve that issue.

  3. Administrators for a pot is a good idea, but they have to be trusted.

Of course you don’t want to give access to your money to people you can’t trust, but certain situations don’t work like that - what if you all wanna put money together for shared bills in a shared house? You might not trust those people not to steal all your money, but you’d like the convenience and ease of having the funds all in one account.


#88

Hi all, I just went trough all the replies and wanted to answer some of the main questions that came out:

Who actually owns the money in the pot? And what happens when people leave the pot?

@Frankiejr @nanos The idea is that the shared pot belongs to the creator of the pot. The owner is the only person who can withdraw money, although they can also decide on the type of permissions they’d like to give to the people they share it with (ex. add only, add&withdraw). If people leave the pot, money will stay with the owner.

yes, this is something we want to do :slight_smile:

Is there any way to limit withdrawals if it shows on everyone’s account?

Yes, it should be possible to set up withdrawals limits. One of them could be to limit withdrawals up to the amount you’ve contributed.

If you create a shared pot, does everyone who it’s shared with get to see it in their “account” tab too, and if so, would there be any restriction to prevent them withdrawing money?

@tbutz yes, everybody will be able to see the pot in their account tab and keep track of contributions.

I’ve seen quite a few concerns around trusting people when sharing pots and I agree that we should definitely do whatever we can to make this feature as safest as possible. However, we can’t predict unethical behavior :frowning: Good thing is that you’re only sharing a pot and in no way would the people you share it with be able to access your account’s information!

Could this support deposits in the form of monzo.me?

@Alexhurren maybe not at the beginning, but something to potentially consider as well. The initial idea is to be able to share it with people on Monzo as ideally you’d like everybody to get easy access and visibility to it.

I know, that would be awesome! Although, I think this should be part of a different conversation as it relates to pots in general and how they work

This is still early stage exploration but we’ll keep you posted :wink:


Joint accounts, more info
#89

A great answer thanks!


#90

So this is not intended as a Joint Account replacement, then? Because that’d be utterly unsuitable.


(Eve) #91

I think there are different permissions that the creator can give to other members eg to add & withdraw as mentioned. I misread it like you initially but if only the creator can withdraw money it would be pointless. I think having different custom options like this allows for different groups/ relationships of people and if you can custom the amount and permissions all the better. I would be comfortable with my partner accessing all the money in the pot but I might not feel the same way for a shared pot between housemates or a pooled pot for a birthday gift between friends.


(Adam Robertson) #92

Really like it - but personally the best use I can see from this is for bills (collecting money for presents is great but relies on everyone having a Monzo current account as their main bank account - which is very unlikely).

And using it for bill would only be useful (in my opinion) if you could pay direct debits directly from Pots. So I think this is a good idea, but will be a bit redundant unless direct payments is introduced first/alongside.


#93

I’ve said it before, but In my opinion, this isn’t about “access permissions” it’s about ownership.

I feel it is absolutely crucial that money in our joint account is owned by both of us. (Especially should one of us die. Until then it’s probably mostly emotional that I don’t want to own money on my own, but if I die, and all the cash is held in an account that I own, my wife - who doesn’t currently work - would be even more screwed than she already would be.)

The same applies for a “flat mate bills shared pot” sort of scenario.


#94

Also, given that Monzo have previously indicated that one reason they wanted to do joint accounts differently is the potential for abuse of joint accounts (one party racking up massive overdraft charges, leaving the other liable for payment), I really feel that a model where one party is essentially gifting money to another, and has no claim to ownership whatsoever over what’s supposed to be a shared pot, is a MASSIVE step backwards.

It’s not actually a shared pot at all: it’s a gift pot…


(lee) #95

So these are possible…

  • Unmarried couple use pots as joint account. The partner with the permission dies, other partner cant get access. Also they don’t have a will so the remaining person potentially gets zero?

  • Couple have shared pot - cheating partner who is pot owner adds mistress/lover :laughing:

  • A group of housemates share an account for bills/rent but pot owner closes account and runs off with the lot.

Essentially the person with no ownership is gifting the money, but they just have some visibility.

Does a joint pot allow for overdrafts? (how many people have an overdraft on a joint account?). And if there is access and permission on said pot - both could spend but only one could be liable?

Monzome/Split the bill kinda already fill what this tries to achieve (sharing bills or gifting money) this just feels like a poorly considered variation which actually doesn’t cover the real life use.

Anyone got any glitter? :poop: