Or maybe…
Followed by…
2 Likes
To the moooon!
1 Like
or whatever the cool kids say
Phil, I respect your opinon and your posts are generally valuable and constructive, but on this topic you’re just tying yourself up in knots and moving the goal posts each time you post.
You originally said:
So I quoted an original post, several years ago, from Hugh outlining what I’d said which had already been quoted earlier on in the thread and your response was:
You’ve also pulled me up before for commenting on things (quite right, and for which I apologised) as a staff member and therefore in a official capacity.
So you either want somebody to clarify what our policy is, which I have, or you want an official response, which is also what you’ve had.
The law around tipping off is incredibly complex and most front line staff don’t have the level of understanding around this that staff who work in financial crime do. I work in Financial Crime, so I’m fairly confident that I can respond to the best of my ability, with out compromising our internal policy.
We are 100% fine with people who use Crypto for personal usage. We have people who use their Monzo account solely for crypto in the same way that we have customers who use their accounts for things like matched betting or to separate their monthly spending budgets. We’re okay with that - honestly.
Some people, however, abuse the system. They try to disguise criminal activity by what you and me would consider perfectly normal use, but there are multiple indicators that we use and identify in order to prevent people being scammed, defrauded or victimised in other ways. The only way to be truly transparent about our acceptance of Crypto would be to disclose what we deem isn’t acceptable. I could list those things for you quite easily, but that would aide those who use any financial system to game the system. We wouldn’t ever be prepared to do that because it would be criminal and negligent to do so.
I don’t think we can be clearer than saying if you use your Monzo account for personal cryptocurrency then we don’t have an issue with it. We can’t comment on other individual scenarios because if we said yes you can do that, no you can’t do that, then the people who take advantage of young people to mule money would very quickly adapt the way they work to avoid detection.
In the same vein, if I defined what we see as “personal” or “acceptable” crypto use then people would manipulate their movements of money to mirror this and attempt to avoid detection.
I’m genuinely sorry if the explanation isn’t enough for you here, but there won’t be any further information we can provide here.
It’s my last night off tonight, so I’m putting the community down and having an early one with my latest Jack Reacher book (I can’t believe I’ve only just discovered the Lee Child books!!), but I hope you have a great evening 
14 Likes
I appreciate your time and response. 
The only thing that’s missing is it coming from Monzo the brand, and not just @Dan5 in a forum thread that only a handful of customers with ever see.
I don’t think anyone expects a list of what is and what isn’t acceptable in say the terms. If Monzo started “personal crypto use is accepted” then I don’t see the issue.
It allows people who genuinely want to buy crypto with their own money to go ok I’m happy to use my Monzo account and it won’t be frozen because they don’t like crypto.
The people abusing the system with fraud don’t care about terms they aren’t going to try it on and more or less because they see personal crypto is fine.
If I was in charge of marketing I would be shouting it from the rooftops.
It’s not just Dan. It’s Monzo saying it since he ’wears’ a Monzo badge. The same way if you wear a Tesco uniform and go and start complaining loudly in Sainsbury’s, it could easily be taken as your employer, Tesco saying all those things and you’ll be in hot water quickly
Where do you want Monzo to say it? Send everyone an email? They can’t because their and your interpretation of personal use likely differ. Due to how complex financial crime regulations are banks have to keep their terms vague so as to avoid back and forth with customers and potentially tipping someone off
They can’t say it so they won’t. You won’t get better than someone ‘wearing the Monzo uniform’ directly responding to you on a public forum that anyone can search for on Google
Well an email would be excellent that way it would inform all users
Or even inside the app as one of those information alerts that appears at the top of your feed that you can dismiss.
Or adding to the website under features as the account as it’s a clear incentive to some people to know their bank is fine with personal crypto use.
Or add it to their terms and conditions.
1 Like
It again comes down to the fact that I imagine most of their customers don’t give a toss about crypto and as such wouldn’t welcome such an email. Others would feel encouraged to try and push the boundaries.
The ones who are interested will search and look it up. Others (probably 80% or more) just aren’t interested
We’re going around in circles now so perhaps time to move on
2 Likes
How about we leave this one now? We’ve had a better and more comprehensive response than perhaps we deserved given the circumstances.
9 Likes
At least it clarified it for me so that i now have the knowledge that if I decided I wanted to do it in the future, I know i can do it without any consequences as long as its for personal use.
As said above, if people want to know, this is now out there in the public domain curtesy of Google.
1 Like
I don’t see going round in circles.
I see a very valuable discussion here were we have clear communication from a Monzo staff that Monzo is fine with personal crypto that’s a huge step forward.
Personally I would like to shout that as themselves on the email/website/terms rather than now Hugh (2018) and Dan (2021) saying it’s fine. I believe Dan but the millions of customers (and potential customers) won’t see this thread.
If I was in marketing at Monzo I would be making a big deal that Monzo is fine with it whilst Starling is not. It’s an easy win.
For the people that don’t care then they don’t take an action, how.many marketing emails are always 100% relevant to your personal needs.
Monzo demographic are the most likely to be holding crypto. 18-40, affluent, techie, trusting fintech, already using Freetrade/T212 etc
Proportionally it would be higher than a legacy bank with a full range of customers like NatWest.
If you asked everyone of Monzo customers you would expect a decent proportion to have heard of Bitcoin and/or hold it elsewhere.
You’ve said that several times. I’m sure that it’s been noted.
I’m not sure what else remains to be said.
3 Likes
Nothing from myself but it doesn’t warrant closing down a thread which maybe useful to others.
I would love to see @Dan5 come back to say it’s been noted and that may happen once he’s finished his Jack Reacher book.
I’d love to think Monzo actually take feedback on board but I’ve not seen that in my time on here. I don’t care if it’s not used or suggestion thrown in bin.
Whilst I’m sure everyone may think I’m saying all this for personal reasons, I truly believe it would help Monzo grow if they were straight with crypto. I don’t care personally I’m fine with my legacy attached to Binance. Would I fund from Monzo if Monzo said it was fine probably. And again I’m not trying to be rude to Dan, but I wouldn’t want to see it frozen and me to start respond well this Dan guy on the forums said it was fine and get a sorry we can’t discuss why it was shut reply. I want to see it in Ts&Cs or Monzo branded statement/advert
Whilst some see crypto is pointless, waste of resources, for criminals and assassins, others can see the potential and that it’s here to stay. I can see why some maybe salty that 1 coin is now £35k and they didn’t buy when it was a few quid
Please !!! 
5 Likes
Great answer, and amazing books!!! Transport you to some great locations during a lockdown! 
Monzo aren’t going to advertise it, in the same way that they don’t advertise you can withdraw cash from your account and purchase cocaine.
It’s pretty clear if you follow the company and it’s executives that Monzo are somewhat dubious about crypto’s place in the world long term. But it’s also clear from @Dan5 ‘s very helpful posts, that it’s fine to use your Monzo account for personal crypto use.
1 Like
I have heard of crypto but quite frankly think that you have had a good response from a member of monzo staff and should move on.
There are also various responses from Monzo’s Twitter account on whether or not Monzo can be used to transact with crypto exchanges. Here are a few
The last tweet links to a Monzo blog post on sign up process and KYC written by the head of financial crime at the time. Here are some relevant excerpts…
We therefore consider KYC to be an ongoing process, that begins when you sign up for a Monzo account and continues throughout the course of our relationship. By taking this approach, we can make it as easy as possible for you to get started, and get to know you over time instead.
Because we take this continuous approach to KYC, at some point we might reach out to ask you a few questions or for some extra information.
Similarly, we know a lot of our customers are interested in new technologies like cryptocurrencies, and a few have been using their Monzo accounts to trade them. We want to make sure people can keep doing so in a fair and legal way, so as part of our KYC process, we might ask you for more information about how you’re using cryptocurrencies with your Monzo account. If you aren’t able to give us a reasonable response to our questions, we unfortunately may have to ask you to stop using your account in this way.
5 Likes
lol are you really trying to put cocaine and bitcoin in the same boat.
I mean that’s completely irrelevant. It’s strawman, like saying well they wouldn’t add that the Nazis were bad to the Ts&C’s.
Once the cash is withdrawn you can do whatever with it (legal or illegal) so would be impossible to list all the uses.
As I’ve already mentioned above other banks have a clear stance either way. Adding that personal crypto trading is fine to Ts&C’s doesn’t mean anything other than clarifying their position.
And if people want to trade bitcoin and then take the profits and buy a ton of blow then that’s their choice. 
I haven’t found that clear at all that monzo executives are dubious about crypto, have you got any links?
My perception of monzo being anti-crypto has come about from reading forums (Inc this one) not from what execs feel.