IMO the problem lies with the login method in general. I know a lot of people like it but I personally hate Magic Links, and whilst I use 2 factor auth on everything that offers it including my email. Email is not secure enough for you to use this as your only login option for your bank, let alone the unpredictability of spam filters etc per mail client and provider.
The method is the problem in my opinion which renders the above debate pointless for me.
It’s my biggest problem with Monzo and I hope one day soon they offer alternative login options.
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Reminder emails aren’t frequent enough to look like spam or phishing attempts to iCloud. They will almost certainly go through.
It’s an issue Monzo need to talk to Apple about otherwise it will never be fixed. And to the end user, it’s just a negative Monzo experience. Apple has very strict filters. Most people aren’t technically inclined enough to wonder that it may be iCloud getting in the way.
Although it’s easy for people here to blame Apple for that, I think that’s misdirected. Apple wouldn’t be blocking the emails if they were able to identify and validate them, which is a Monzo issue.
When most mobile operating systems have built in password managers these days that will automatically store and remember and use passwords for you on the web and in apps, I really don’t understand the opposition to having an optional password.
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On Apple’s end, I don’t think the issue is blocking emails per se - that happens. Junk email filters will never be 100% accurate and every email user needs to be aware that important or expected emails might sometimes end up in the junk/spam folder. The issue is what gets filtered into the junk folder by iCloud doesn’t show up in the junk folder in Apple’s own email app. That’s bonkers.
Apple doesn’t have a responsibility toward Monzo but does have a responsibility to provide a reliable email experience to its own customers. In the case described in this thread, they’ve failed in providing a reliable email experience. Just as Monzo has failed in providing effective customer support.
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Could you elaborate or provide an example of what you mean here? Apple’s mail apps have been riddled with bugs, sure, but I’ve never experienced that and I use iCloud exclusively and extensively for email. It used to be the client app had local folders in addition to folders that pulled directly from the server, so I could understand the confusion there, but that hasn’t been the case for a while now.
I have a couple of friends on the iCloud team at Apple, and I’ll gladly escalate that issue directly with them if you can provide me with something to demonstrate it along with steps to reproduce
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Here you go…
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Thank you. I’ll pass it on.
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I have an update from one of my friends which I suspect people won’t like. Your article is a bit outdated and related to the Mac client, which is a bit different in how it handles junk filtering and is more to do with how the client filter clashes with their backend one. It’s a legacy thing leftover from the @mac.com era. I don’t know if or when that will be improved or fixed, though I suspect Catalyst should make things more consistent with iOS.
In relation to the iPhone app and why not all junk mail gets pushed to it, the behaviour is intentional. It happens when the email is blocked on the backend by the iCloud server. A different approach that some others do is to simply not deliver the email to user accounts at all, including the junk folder. iCloud, instead, stores the emails on iCloud servers for 30 days but will not push the email to users mailboxes so it does not waste resources, but will remain viewable in iCloud. The user currently has no control over it.
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The article may be old, but the basic point - that there is backend iCloud filtering that is applied before delivering any email to the client - is still the same. That hasn’t changed. Everything in your second paragraph is covered in the lnked article.
Except that on the iPhone, there’s no way to log on to iCloud.com from the default browser!!
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It is always going to be a hard one to balance.
Personally I don’t mind the magic link, though I have only changed phones once since opening a Monzo account.
First Direct is my least favourite, I believe I have to remember 4 passwords and\or pins to get into my account - I wouldn’t want Monzo to start doing that
My apologies. I presumed the article was more discussing how the two different set of filters don’t work together, rather than iCloud junk not syncing consistently to the local folders. Obviously the solution here is to give the users some control over the backend filter. Not something I suspect Apple will do anytime soon. They won’t even allow you to change your primary iCloud email, which I keep complaining about.
This is just the way iCloud email works, and if Monzo is going to use a login system that relies on services outside their control, it’s up to them to mitigate that. Monzo should really be talking to Apple about it, or looking into alternatives.
This is very frustrating! I requested mobile access to iCloud a long time ago. They eventually delivered but mail is not an option. The request desktop site workaround doesn’t work on iCloud.com either. I suspect it’s like Monzo’s web interface, where it’s designed for emergencies for find my iPhone.
Apple are bolstering the availability of their services via a browser, which may or may not include mail access in the near future.
I think a password for a mobile only app is the right balance, at least as an option, especially when you’re only going to need it the first time you launch the app on a new device. The magic link, if I’m being totally honest, is just a gimmick that entices people because it’s cool on the surface, and seems to solve the issue of remembering passwords. Except that issue has already been solved by the developers of the platforms where Monzo is available.
for instance, on iOS, my phone would create and save my password when signing up, along with my email. This is synced over iCloud. So whenever I would upgrade my phone, all I need to do is launch the app and either scan my face, fingerprint, or enter my phone’s passcode and I’m logged in and secured by a strong password and multi-factor authentication. It’s objectively much faster, more convenient, more reliable, and more secure than a magic link.
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Hi Richard,
Sorry she’s having problems! Please don’t post her email publicly, but by any chance is it a hotmail or outlook email?
If so, can you try the following steps please:
-
Check your junk/spam folders. If the link is there it’s possible you need to mark the email as safe or move it to your inbox so the magic link can be accessed.
-
If there’s nothing there then, please follow the steps below to safelist login emails from Monzo:
- Sign in to outlook via a web browser
- At the top of the page, select Settings
- Select “Mail”.
- Under Options, select Block or allow.
- To add us to Safe senders and recipients, enter “monzomail.com” in the “Enter a sender or domain here” text box, and then press Enter, or select the Add icon.
- Select Save to save your changes.
Depending on the device, you may need to follow these instructions instead:
- Sign into outlook
- Tap on the Cog icon (top right) - Select “View all Outlook settings”
- Go to “Email”
- Then “Junk email”
- Then “Safe senders and domains”
Then try requesting a new login link.
After safelisting the address, please wait 10 minutes or so, and then request a new magic link.
It might be helpful to add the iCloud email issues to the list of workarounds.
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But that is what first direct do, but I have 4 passwords\pins and I bet a large portion of support time is spent resetting them
People would have to have it reset a lot plus it leads to people setting easy to guess passwords, which could lead to an increase in fraud for Monzo customers
I have only used a magic link once, so surely I would also have only used the password once, if there was one, I guarantee I would have forgot it having only used it once in 3 years.
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(Not replying to anyone in particular)
If the problem is that some transactional emails are not arriving, then password reset emails would not arrive also (which would likely be of a similar or higher quantity). Monzo (a BANK!) needs to work to improve their email deliverability of their transactionals, regardless of where the fault lays.
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I’m comparing the password management systems built into smartphones, not passwords themselves. You wouldn’t need to remember the password. Your iCloud or Google account does that for you, and will input it automatically.
If the user elects to not use the in built password manager tools, then of course the burden to choose and remember a secure password is on them, hence why I’m asking for it as an option and not something that’s mandatory.
Completely agree with you, but I suspect volume of emails will play a role in how a server will generally categorise it. I can certainly filter my own mail servers to black hole certain aliases if the amount of emails being sent to my server is suspicious or exceeds a limit I put in place.
There isn’t any data on this, but I would expect far more magic link emails are sent out daily than there ever would be forgot password emails.
It is easy to blame them, because it is mainly them at fault
It is amazing how so many on this forum go to such lengths to love on or excuse every company in the world except Monzo when the remainder of us have to put up with being described all the time as blind loyalists
How could you begin to know that with any certainty?