Just to add two pennies to this tangent, Ethical Consumer is also a good resource for looking at the ethics of banking. It is paid so not sure how much you can see before the paywall but if you’re generally ethically minded about things in life it’s well worth £30 a year.
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How much of the planet died for your cashback, could you quantify that? Your ‘ethics’ go out the window if there’s easy money to be made, have I interpreted correctly?
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I’d say no, you probably haven’t interpreted correctly.
I’m someone in broadly the same situation as @breville_monkey. I don’t really like JP Morgan and think that, on the whole, it is probably ethically moribund.
My consideration is broadly this: I’ve used Chase for interest and cashback. I haven’t thought about it particularly deeply, but my assumption is that I’ve been a loss leader for them. If, by taking their money, I was somehow increasing their profits or funding climate change, then I might worry. But I think given that this is abstracting profit (probably). And as I don’t see a direct casual link to harm I’m very happy to do the same as @breville_monkey.
I’ve largely given up on them due to basic incompetence, but would always have stopped as soon as I wasn’t able to profit from their financial largesse.
I can’t speak for @breville_monkey but that’s my take at least. It feels morally okay for me. I’m not, however, the best of us.
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Where do you think your cashback comes from?
If you’re bothered about how JPMChase earns money from unethical investing, why aren’t you bothered about taking that money for yourself as cashback?
In other words, you’ll overlook JPMChase trashing the planet if some of the spoils go into your pocket, rather than Chase’s?
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So I think you’re taking an absolutist moral stance here while I’m taking a relative one.
What I mean is that I can’t change JPM. I can’t change how they make their profits or what they do with it.
What I can do is to divert some of them to me. That’s wasted money for them. It’s infinitesimal for them, small for me but not tiny. But it’s better, relatively and in my view, to take that than to have it fund oil or do something else equally bad. And then I can do something relatively better with it.
Is it absolutely the best thing? No. But I can’t click my fingers and change JPM.
Is it, relatively speaking, a good ethical move for me given the circumstances and what I can change or influence? Yes. I think it probably is.
I’m happy to debate it, but we need to have the same frame for the debate - I just don’t think we do right now.
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As I said, I was trying to work out if I’d interpreted correctly. Thanks for clarifying.
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I’m not sure that’s quite as true as it was. High Street banks with a high cost base, sure. But I suspect that Monzo has a net positive contribution for each additional UK current account. And the different economics in the States will mean that US accounts probably will be net positive, too.
Chase, though, probably do see it as a loss leader. Which partly explains the “legacy in an app” mindset.
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What’s your take?
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False. The launch of chase in the UK gave them access to cheap funding costs, below to what they could access on in the debt markets. It has improved their net interest margin. And in terms ir regulatory capital requirements it is cheap to them.
Same story with Marcus by Goldman Sachs.
Yes, they cry and claim losses on the business unit (the development is a sunken cost), but in the other parts of the business they are happy with less capital requirements.
They both value parked cash.
If you want to park cash, go with vanguard investment or s&s ISA accounts which pay variable rate just below BoE, but otherwise market leading for near no-cap accounts. See Reddit - Dive into anything
Is that still the case if I kept a balance of £10 in Chase and used it exclusively for card purchases, taking money from JPM via cashback?
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No, my ethics is that I won’t help these companies make money, for example by putting lots of money in there that they can lend to fossil fuel companies. So I keep a low balance generally transferring in and spending.
If I can make money from them, I don’t see that as a problem. So long as I’m pretty confident I am a net cost to them, I’m alright with it.
Probably not Chase specific, but my other half just had a transaction for £19.20 from British Airways on his Chase account that he didn’t do.
After asking support he was told it was initiated by Apple Pay… I’m wondering how that’s possible? His phone is literally with him and Apple Pay requires FaceID to work?
(For what it’s worth, the support answered within a few minutes)
There’s nothing we would be charged from by BA at all. It’s the Apple Pay part that’s strange.
Yeah… To get cashback you had to deposit some money (however small), if even during the day / overnight. It’s enough to improve their cash position. Cashback settles at like +3 days. During recent gilt market crisis, banks made a killing who had access to same day cash versus T+2/3 for gilt settlement.
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I wonder if the chat agent can see it was made on an Apple device and has got confused?
ApplePay would require authentication of some description.
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Yeah they said it and it’s on his Apple Pay transaction list. Very strange.
Anyway, back to Chase!
Anyone else get a notification today to check the app in a couple of days since it’s updating?
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Not yet, as in suggesting some sort of redesign?
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Sure it’s not the interest rates changing notification?
Depending on what phone you have, some store notifications in settings. Could you screenshot?
No it says:
"your app is having a makeover! Check back in a few days’ time to see what’s new.
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