That scenario is somewhat understandable though, given that these are actually separate accounts. In contrast, I can’t understand the logic behind not considering pots when determining whether a user is overdrawn, despite the fact that pot balances are clearly included in the total balance of the account. To be frank, the only logical reason I can see for doing this is profitability, which is a valid reason, as long as it is stated as such given Monzo’s transparency focus.
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But that’s just not how it works. And for joint accounts specifically it really can’t work like this, as different people are liable for the joint account, your account and your partner’s account. (or, if your balance is positive, then the money in the account is owned by different people.)
Practically, imagine a situation were your account is at - £20, your partner’s at - £25, and your joint account is at £25. Whom do you charge now?
There are already a lot of stories where people abuse joint accounts, and leave their partners with large debts after splitting up. Imagine how much worse this would be, if your sole account could be used to essentially underwrite your joint account, and your partner’s sole account…
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I am currently sitting in a chip shop. Not a good idea, I don’t know if I am salivating from the nice aroma or the rabies is starting to kick in and I am frothing at the mouth 
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I don’t feel strongly either way on fees, I like the straight forward system but can see advantages of both.
I have never had an APR based overdraft.
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How do you feel about being charged for overdraft usage, if your balance is positive, though?
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I’ve been of two minds since I’ve heard both ways.
I like the Monzo approach because it should be up to me to control what is AVAILABLE to me, and that is what I’m charged on. I know there is a £20 fee free buffer and I have until midnight.
I also know how our approachable Customer Service is and the collections process at Monzo (industry standard pretty much)
I like Starlings approach because it’s funds that are easily within reach for me, so fees shouldn’t apply. But I still argue that I am the one to choose to segregate it from my balance.
I don’t have a strong preference I guess. I get both ways and as we grow I hope our decision makes more sense to many people.
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The approach of a fee not a % makes sense
but calculating it on the acount balance minus the value of the pots does not
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What if you could set up a rule for a pot so that every time your balance hits £0 it pulls money out of one specific pot? 
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That still wouldn’t solve the problem that you’d be the only bank I’ve ever come across, that charges for overdrafts, if the account balance is above 0. Something that I find unacceptable.
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That would solve the problem.
But the API returns the “balance” (as likely used in the overdraft fee calculations) and “total balance” (as seen on the top of the Account tab, on Android at least). Given that, I think it would be much easier (require much less effort), from a development standpoint, to switch the calculation from using “balance” to “total balance”. I’m obviously assuming that the public API is very similar to the one used internally, bar the changes introduced around the authorisation model (as detailed in the Open Banking blog post in January).
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Could not agreed more.
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It doesn’t matter if the customer have the power to swap money over. You terms and conditions don’t state that pots and card balance are separate accounts, especially for the purpose of overdrafts, as far as I am aware. All your terms (posted above so I should really check myself) state are thus:
Making payments
You need enough money in your account to make payments. But some transactions that would take your balance below zero may still go through. If that happens, we’ll let you know the amount you’ll need to repay before the end of the day.
If your balance is below zero, we won’t charge anything up to -£20. But after that, we charge 50p a day at the end of each day. We calculate overdraft fees at the end of the day and take them from your account on the first day of the month.
Therefore the question is: are pots and the main balance one account or are they two separate accounts?
If they are the same account then your terms and conditions are pretty clear that customers shouldn’t get charged until the balance is below zero. If I have £500 in my pot and -£30 on my card. My account would still be £470 in credit. By charging an overdraft fee in this specific scenario, Monzo could potentially be breaching its own terms and conditions.
Monzo need to clarify, in their terms and conditions, what an ‘account’ and ‘balance’ are.
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That’s better than nothing imo but its a work around 
. If Monzo are going to stick with the current model at least make it so pot balances don’t contibute to overall account balance in the app and on statements. Make the pot funds separate proper would be my suggestion if you want to stick to your guns!
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I think the key here isn’t how Monzo do it (I prefer the way they do as my posts above have outlined) but the wording and definition of your balance within the app and statements is inconsistent in various places?
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Exactly. I don’t mind Monzo have a way of doing things (even if I don’t like the 50p a day thing), its just that financial terms and conditions need to be watertight to not just protect consumers, but Monzo themselves.
I have an MBNA credit card and every time I change something on my account, even if it is as simple as adding it to Apple Pay, they send me out my WHOLE terms and conditions by post. I’ve had them 3 times last month changing different things. But at least they can definitely say that I received the most recent version and (should) know what they are.
Please don’t do it MBNA’s way though!
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Barclaycard also do this! Every time you do something on Apple Pay it triggers a terms booklet to be sent out it’s so annoying.
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Round in circles? Not for me. Pots or Goals are MY money in my account that has a circle round it, a note if you will, its still MY money, I am in credit with that bank. Therefore if I’m in credit I’m not overdrawn, i.e. borrowing from them, and shouldn’t be paying interest or charges, period. You can waffle on about third party integration, fiscal responsibility, the price of lemons all you like. My money, in credit, next!
Of course thats just my opinion but as Fletcher of Josey Wales would say “don’t piss down my back and tell me its raining”.
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Could have sworn it was Chaucer 
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So is Monzo going to respond to this? I think at the very least they need to update t&c off back of this - as it’s currently very disputable…
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They are probably just hoping we give up…