Property investing platform is looking for your feedback to shake things up

Hi peeps :wave:t3:!

We are on a mission to transform the property investment industry and we need your help :pray:t3:.

We are building Proptee, to democratise property investment by making trading cash and properties a simple and effortless activity :dollar::house_with_garden:.

We are fed up :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: with how complicated, convoluted, and time-consuming is for anyone to invest in buy-to-let properties, nobody should be wasting months on end and thousands of pounds in third-party fees to put their money to work for them in real estate.

We need you to help us shape the future and to understand what are the biggest pain points to solve now. By answering this short form you are giving us critical insights to aim our efforts where it is needed the most.

Massive thanks :raised_hands:t4:!

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Good. There is a huge housing shortage in this country for people to get on the property ladder. I would have no problem if BTL was even more expensive and difficult for you :+1:

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I wish there was a healthier environment overall, I side with you there 100%, and I am pretty sure many brilliant initiatives are trying to solve the housing shortage, and the issues many first time buyers are facing. :crossed_fingers:t4:this will improve in the near future.

There are a huge number of problems, in way too many fronts, and I completely understand the sentiment.

Still, right now we are trying to improve how things work in regards to trading equity, maybe down the road we can contribute with our grain of sand to help in the shortage front.

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I don’t think you’ll find too much sympathy here – if I understand the proposition it’s a way for people to invest small amounts of money into BTL properties that someone else will own/manage on the investors’ behalf? It’s just going to increase the problems on the market by gobbling up even more properties into the BTL world just so that people can invest whilst their dream of one day owning their own place drifts further and further away by their own doing?

It’s a bit like building coal power plants saying that you’ll invest all your profits you make with them into green energy. But at that point it’s too late. And maybe it’s just my cynicism, but I can’t see a for-profit company ever even thinking of doing something good that doesn’t serve them in some way

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You’re not going to do that by making it easier to speculate on the housing market. That’s just going to make things worse.

Homes aren’t optional and they’re not for padding out the pensions of older generations.

As it stands, we can already buy REITs, so I don’t know what problem you are trying to solve?

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It’s a bit like building coal power plants saying that you’ll invest all your profits you make with them into green energy

That was a really good analogy, hope you don’t mind if I quote you.

if I understand the proposition it’s a way for people to invest small amounts of money into BTL properties that someone else will own/manage on the investors’ behalf?

This is one side of the coin, many people would like to invest in real estate, maybe because overall it is less volatile than stocks, or because they enjoy it. We are indeed enabling that.
The other side of the same coin is that we are opening those already taken BTL properties into an open market. I do believe that the dynamics of supply and demand on that open market will eventually help balance out issues about lack of supply.

We are aiming to redistribute the current pool of BTL for a wider audience, and to simplify the process to gain equity in those houses, would it make sense for us to look into and work on something where people can actually acquire the full place and move in if they wish? (I am thinking like Shared Ownership but not making massive companies richer cough, cough Berkeley, JLL, Savills)

I agree that, generally, for-profits will do stuff only if it serves them, but we would want to build our profit-generating engine in a way that helps society move into a brighter future, just as many companies do.

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As it stands, we can already buy REITs, so I don’t know what problem you are trying to solve?

Each REIT focuses on certain asset classes, like apartment buildings, shopping malls, etc. That means if you invest in an apartment REIT, it will likely own and manage a lot of apartment buildings in multiple markets across the country.
You don’t get a say in which apartments the REIT purchases and it’s insanely hard to check its current portfolio.

In conclusion, using Proptee you have more control over decision making than you would with REITs. For example, you can select only properties that match your preferences for location, property type and can decide how many properties to buy. Also, you can liquidate almost instantly on Proptee, the same way you can do it with a REIT.

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If only first-time buyers were afforded that opportunity.

Sorry, but no. The best place for the buy-to-let market is in the past. A past never to be repeated.

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They are, and many great companies and initiatives are trying to make first-time-buyer housing widely accessible and remove the barriers of entry in multiple ways, which is great! Though, this is not the problem we are addressing.

Maybe this is not where we should be spending our energy, and that’s one of the reasons we are trying to gather some data with the form I linked above. We do appreciate the feedback a ton, and it would help even more if you could also share your perspective there.

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Not sure why you praise that as great whilst at the same time contributing to the problem, but oh well :man_shrugging:

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Just to make sure I understand you point Rob, anything related to residential letting is adding to the housing crisis in the UK? Or is it just BTL? What about holiday rentals/AirBnb type of arrangements?

Not speaking for Rob but there’s two main types of Airbnb.

You have the person who rents out their spare room, or home when they go on holiday. For a bit of extra needed cash.

You also have the big businesses that buy properties for the sole purpose of turning them into a place to stay. Renting them to many people over the year as apposed to one or two.

AirBnB is like BTL on steroids, even worse. There’s a reason cities like Berlin and Barcelona are heavily clamping down on short term holiday lets.

@phildawson
That I am aware of, in fact, I frequently enjoy those extra rooms when travelling, where a family is just adding a bit of income. I guess larger B&B managed by people living there also fall in this category.

If I read the room correctly, no one has a strong negative emotion against those right?

Now, the big corporations buying a ton of homes and turning them in what is essentially a hotel. Those will you say are adding to the issues?

What about when companies do the same thing of purchasing multiple properties, but they rent them over multiple years, is this comparatively better or worse or the same as the above?

I particularly enjoyed that 70% of all the business support grants in my local area were awarded to airbnb owners. Our council ran out of money. Businesses struggled.

In my eyes, both are unhelpful because of their motives. The home owner is simply using resources they have available, not depriving others of them. Locals are often priced out of the market in my home town. I made it onto the property ladder because I was in the right place at the right time. Many of my friends can barely afford to save, because their rent to a BTL owner is over double my mortgage, for a third of the space!

In the winter months, our town is left desolate and businesses struggling because the holiday rentals are empty, and there’s nobody to shop local.

We have young people unable to get anywhere because of sheer greed of property owners, unfair leases, and overpriced rooms. The housing support schemes (help to buy, shared ownership) aren’t helping much, because of the equal greed on the proportion being rented. None of it is sustainable.

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I have seen this all around, you are right, I think Amsterdam also has very strict regulations on short-term rentals like such.

Risking getting too off-topic here but I am curious, how do you compare AirBnB-like rental properties with the standard mid-long term BTL houses?

I believe the whole AirBnb situation got to a point where it is backfiring on many investors that were chasing the trend and now are paying considerable upkeep for a property on an overly-saturated market. I guess that I am hinting that the “corrections” to that market also come with steroids right? :sweat_smile:

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Potentially, and I would have little sympathy for anyone caught out by this.

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I don’t think anyone would have anything negative to say. If someone has an extra room they can make some extra cash good for them. If someone rents out their home whilst away then that’s essentially free house sitting and getting paid.

Put simply if anyone is buying property (or owning a slice of it) to make an income that is essentially taking it away from those buying to live it in. It essentially prices out those who can’t compete with the money businesses have to spend.

Buying a property to Airbnb it to rent to many people with a few days contract, or renting to someone on a 6mth, 1 yr, 2yr etc contract is exactly the same outcome.

I think you’ll get a lot of backlash in this forum as the demographics here (18-40) are likely to be pissed off being forced into renting, because they simply can’t afford to buy and have a mortgage.

Gone are the days of buying a £50k house and then getting £500k for it a decade later. If you are 60+ and bought back in the day, then you have little concerns on retirement and can downsize and live off the extra. How are the new generation going to do that other than hoping mum and dad haven’t blown it all, and essentially needing that money once they pop it. A lot of people are going to be fucked in 30-40yrs time.

I would assume a lot in this demographic are living paycheck to paycheck and would love to have extra just to save rainy day money, let alone invest.

I think there will still be people wanting to invest in your product however. There is a slice of the middle class, with disposable income that are already retail investors and have used Freetrade/T212 for shares, or P2P lending using Funding Circle/Zopa, or use Robo traders like Wealthify to invest.

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Has anyone actually managed to get an AirBnB let that is genuinely someone letting out their own house? I mean, I don’t doubt they exist, but my experience with AirBnB is that I’ve never actually got the place I’ve booked, with the host always moving me to a different room or even building instead.

I mean, the alternatives have always been fine (nothing to complain about, at least), but in every case my feeling has been “Oh, wow, you’ve clearly snapped up every property in the area you could for BTL offerings, then :|”, which I’m decidedly uncomfortable with. I hate to think I’m even indirectly responsible for someone to not be able to get a home.

In any case, after the (often bullshit) mandatory charges that AirBnB tags on to a listing over and above the ‘sale’ price (as it were), I’ve found that almost without exception I can get a thoroughly decent hotel room in the same city instead, for a better price. So I’d tilted heavily back to hotels (often better located, as well), until this whole pandemic thing put the ixnay on my ravelstay.

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I’ve never used AirBnB, I’ve priced it up a few times and without exception it was more expensive for a worse room in a crap location than a hotel.

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