Our Approach to Overdrafts

Flat charges per day are good but the way banks like natwest do it is a total rip off. They charge £6 for using an agreed overdraft and £1 a day so the APR could be a thousand percent if the amount borrowed is small. It encourages users to borrow the maximum amount they can as it is still £1 a day.

It would be good if you made it something like:

<£200 = 10p per day
200-400 = 20p per day
400-600 = 30p per day
600-800 = 40p per day
800-1000=50p per day

Then you are still getting around 20% APR but it is more transparent and customers can’t be ripped off like they can when paying £36 a month to borrow a few quid.

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What about some kind of referral rate, like if you refer 5 people to Monzo who sign up you get charged 10%, 20 people 9.5% etc. Or there could be other benefits to referral.

I am strongly against tying this to referrals for many of the same reasons outlined in this thread.

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Have to agree with @RichardR

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Agree it has to scale like this if you are using fixed numbers.

Banks that use a flat £1 a day end up extortionate for those who may be only a few pounds in overdraft, whilst being absurdly cheap for those who keep a large balance (compounded by the problem that it may be a week or more before you realise as everything in banking appears to happen so slowly*)

From this thread it’s easy to see why banks like flat fees… but there have been times in my life when £30 a month meant the difference between eating or not (and sometimes the only thing keeping me in overdraft was the fees). I don’t want my free banking to be on the back of people struggling.

  • Except monzo, who have taught me that waiting 2 weeks for payments to show on my balance is not normal.

Wow, thanks everyone some amazing and really interesting points being made and I’d like to pull out a few threads if I may. First of all, we have been incredibly well trained to know that if we want to borrow at the end of the month we get an overdraft, for expenses it’s a credit card, a car is a loan, a fridge is point-of-sale finance and a house is a mortgage. Why? Well it makes it easy for the :bank: with credit scoring, policy rules and it also makes balance sheet management easier. At :monzo: something different is planned. First up, as @JamesBell mentioned, we have started on supporting and encouraging good financial behaviour, we call it Targets :dart: New Targets feature now live! and it’s great to see the community benefiting from this already.

Secondly, pricing. Whilst I think @mj84 and others have a great point that many people don’t calculate or even understand the cost of credit, I firmly believe that :monzo: should be a force for good here. No apologies we will make money from lending although we will do this at a ‘fair’ price. Personally I believe this means setting a rate of interest (somewhere in the 20-50% space) although crucially showing this in app in £ and p - predictively as well as retrospectively (does that make sense). In the longer term @JamesBell has the most likely view that we become a data/identity platform/financial navigator/hub and earn a margin for referrals - whilst tackling another little bugbear of mine…ADVICE (oh no another :bee: nest :wink:).

Thirdly, when we do start to lend it will be very simple in true :monzo: style although it will be the first step of many. However, in the future imagine if you knew what your personal credit line was and that you could buy what you wanted when you wanted and then in the evening over a :coffee: or :wine_glass: decide how you wanted to pay the money back, thereby solving @Nizar’s point about small ‘loans’ - think about it…an overdraft that is repayable over a period of time is…a loan :thinking:

Finally, as a little thank you for your participation in this thread. I’d like to give you a @hugo style ‘sneak peek’ (can you spot his magic :es: :heart: touch?) on a screen, one of many that could be working its way to you over the coming months:

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May I suggest the term ‘@hugo & his magic :es: :heart: touch’ be included in all future SWOT analysis? No incumbent bank can compete with that.

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Hi,I would favor a small ‘free buffer’ of no more than £50 as an overdraft. This would cover most spending and that end of month blip sometimes. Whilst I have ‘free’ banking and don’t use my overdraft, my account sits with about £1500 in it for a good portion of the month,which in sure is well used by my bank to make more money than I cost them.

A daily fee as suggested send fair with bands up upto £200 20p per day £200-400 30p a day etc.

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I doubt this will affect Monzo (as I don’t expect them to impose the punishing fees that we see from the legacy banks) but this is encouraging to see -

Having said that, I expect the legacy bank’s fees & charges will go up as a result…& that will only help attract users to Monzo :slightly_smiling_face:

yes, we can say upfront we will not have punishing charges.Monzo model is all about giving the control to the customer by creating features like pulse graph, budget tools, real-time notification etc. We are currently looking to meet our customers ( look out for a possible invite ) and evolve a model where the customer pays for the services S/he gets while remaining in complete control of the what they use and pay. The worst thing is to find the charges creeping up in a surprising ( rather a nightmarish ) way.

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Here’s a small detail, but an important one, that the legacy banks get wrong (seemingly on purpose), from Tom -

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Idea- offer interest free student bank overdrafts competing with traditional banks with the perk being the superior budgeting app functionality. As a student I find that is of similar value to say a coach card or other freebie from a traditional bank as it’ll save me at least that much. Then in the long term when said students graduate their accounts mature into the regular account and monzo increases both their customer base (short term) and income from overdrafts.

Currently and even with current accounts there is no reason for students to use monzo except for topping it up from their main interest free overdraft student bank accounts… If monzo manages to attract and keep students they could be set for the future as students will only use one bank account, the monzo one!

When it comes to living on a budget, (as many students are) Monzo has proved a pretty popular tool for managing money day to day (for those that know about us.) We’ve worked on a few projects to get more students onboard to and I think we need to work hard to communicate the relevance and value to them specifically.

Whilst the overdraft will be a very helpful extension of the service we offer, I’m not sure we should push this as an incentive for students specifically, especially whilst we’re still finding our feet with lending.

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Just wanted to add to this topic. I’d like it if Monzo don’t do overdraft reductions out of the blue. I recently had my current bank reduce my overdraft by £560 with a notice of 2 weeks. I’ve heard of far worse than this, in some cases £1000. The bank must know that in a lot of cases people cannot afford such a big lump sum with such short notice.

They will give you an option of setting up a payment plan to reduce it down to a certain amount but this is reported against your credit score. The process is a rather long coversation over the phone where they go over all of your monthly bills and expenditure.

Worse still is your overdraft will get removed entirely if you go a penny over the overdraft limit.

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Yes, that is a really clear and obvious way of doing it. It will make customers aware exactly how much they are being charged and can make an informed decision based on that that. It will also not create negative feelings, which is most important for a bank like Monzo. A cumulative fee counter and fee breakdown page maybe useful.

A days grace period for small overdrafts would be a good idea. As it prevents people not using the card when they forget to top up and not have to worry about being charged with fees for emergency or accidental use. Even if the fees are small, it will cause annoyance.

A good example recently was when someone charged my card, the activation lapsed and a week later they eventually took the money… It could have easily thrown me into overdraft.

Monzo’s taking a slightly different approach to managing this, Tom’s said that

personally, I prefer this option as I don’t want to incur any charges unintentionally.

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This is similar to when card companies reduce your limit and then write to you to say it had been done and demanding you reduce the balance in a few weeks.

I feel any.change in overdraft limits or card limits should require sufficient advance notice to prewarn customers and give them time to adjust

I’d prefer it if the bank’s default method was to reduce it gradually based on a fair amount they think you can afford. Then give the choice of paying it off in a lump sum or adjust the monthly amount.

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Are we sure we’re not misunderstanding Tom’s comment?

I see it more as being able to enable/disable the overdraft on your account (easily through settings) as opposed to checking with you each time you’re about to go overdrawn.

It’s been discussed before that Monzo can only really accept or decline transactions, they can’t say halt it whilst you confirm using your phone and I see having your first payment that would push you into your overdraft declined every time would get very annoying so I see Tom’s comment as being the former.

I agree with what @AdamSee said. A day’s grace (and up to a certain amount) to clear your overdraft before incurring charges is a good idea (and I’m pretty certain a lot of banks do it already).

I didn’t mention that Monzo would do this, instead they’ll simply decline the transaction. As you say, they definitely won’t do this -

I don’t think this -

will be a major issue, as the user will be getting their salary paid into their current account.

Lloyds give me until 4pm on the same day to clear my overdraft but when I’ve not had the money to clear it, I’ve remained overdrawn & incurred their charges as a result. Granted Monzo’s charges won’t be punitive but I’d still rather just have the transaction declined.

My understanding is that Monzo will have offered users, who are eligible for an overdraft, an overdraft a few days before their balance is due to hit zero anyway so you’ll have the option to take one in order to manage this scenario or if you can’t afford it, have the payment bounce…