NatWest reducing bank transfer limits

It seems it’s simply there to add an extra hurdle, and I guess they’re hoping that the added friction of this will mean some potential victims reconsider. But yes, if a fraudster is able to convince the victim to ignore all of the pre-existing warnings anyway, I’m unsure of how much of an impact this will actually have.

It hoped that this extra step would give customers a chance to consider why they were being asked to transfer a large sum of money.

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I’ve only kept my Nationwide as they don’t have the £10k a day limit that Monzo does.

Interesting to see how this develops.

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Yes, it’s only currently available via the website. Considering NatWest has a transfer limit of £1,000 via the app for payees not yet paid via online banking, it seems that for a >£1k fraud attempt the scammer would need to coerce the victim into using online banking anyway.

Personally, as someone who likes to use mobile apps for banking whenever possible, I hope that the release of biometric authentication in the app means that there will finally be limit parity between mobile and online banking.

What is Nationwide’s limit out of interest? NatWest say that if you want to make a payment over £20k, you’ll either need to spread it out over multiple days or pay for CHAPS (which is £23, or £21 if the recipient is a NatWest account holder). Funnily enough, this is starting to make some fintechs (which I usually view as not fit for large payments) seem more accommodating. Starling will allow anything up to the Faster Payments system limit of a quarter of a million, but anything over £25k may involve CS (I believe I read somewhere that the way it now works is that instead of contacting them, you just try and make the large payment as usual but at the end instead of ‘Pay’ it will say ‘Request’ or something like that instead of going through immediately it will be marked as pending/awaiting review, and it’s then sent to CS for review and confirmation - they may then get in touch to ask some questions, or might just approve it, depending on the circumstances of course).

EDIT: This is from their help article…

The Faster payments scheme has a £250,000 per transaction limit. You can process payments up to this limit in the app, as you would any other payment, and should we need any further information, we’ll request this from you in-app. In some circumstances you may be asked to provide some further information and/or evidence regarding your payment. For example, we might ask you for more information if you are making a property purchase (e.g. Completion Statement, Lease Agreement Stock).

If you need to send more than £500,000 in one day, this will need to be done via a CHAPS payment. To request this, please get in touch with us.

(CHAPS with Starling is £20)

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I’d prefer you were good at it and they needed to copy you! You shouldn’t be learning from legacy banks - where has the innovation and creative thinking gone.

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I don’t know their limit, but I did 3x £10,000 transfers to a fixed rate product with another provider on the same day, without issue.

With Monzo, it would have been a three day transaction or negotiate CS for increase in limit.

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Such an amount to transfer may be possible with :monzo:, depending on the circumstances and the payment methods accepted:

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I couldn’t have funded my fixed term saver product in that manner tbh

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I accept it is extreme, but possible in the right circumstances.

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I agree with your analysis here and I’m also a bit concerned at how raising the limit might be “framed” by the bank if you happen to have already raised the limit and later somehow become a victim of fraud.

Will the bank try to blame your for raising the limit in the first place, and justify not refunding as a result?

I also think the article’s passing reference to Santander and Nationwide changing their limits is cause for concern. NatWest allow you to keep the higher limit if you want/need to, but perhaps the other banks won’t?

Any move to reduce the maximum payable via Faster Payments is a step backwards, in my view, and it should at least be possible to opt out if it. I don’t want to need to potentially pay for CHAPS payments if I’m moving a large amount just because the bank has decided it won’t allow me to use Faster Payments, even though the scheme limit is sufficient.

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It sounds to me like this is something for more savvy customers, if you’re going to be able to adjust your limit to suit you.

Whereas those who are most at risk of falling victim to scam calls etc are just gonna be pressurised into overriding the limit in the same way they are through warnings.

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Absolutely, it’s always the way.

More warnings are constantly being added to create friction, but all it really does is get in the way of savvy customers. The end result is that scammers always persuade the vulnerable to ignore the warnings because they are susceptible to social engineering strategies. The same social engineering that persuades them it’s a good idea to transfer money after a call out of the blue is going to work to get them to bypass the warning or raise the limit.

“The bank’s fraud team” will probably tell them the limit is there for their own protection, to ensure it’s really they (the customer) transacting on the account and they need to raise it on this occasion to make sure their transfer to a “safe account” can be processed.

You can picture the scene now!

I’ve raised the limit to the maximum myself because the last thing I want is for some slightly-larger than £5,000 sum to get stuck in NatWest and then to have to find my card reader (which I normally never use) to be able to transfer it out via the app. It would be bound to be a problem right at the most inopportune time!

The risk is otherwise minimal, as new payees can only be sent £1,000 at a time in the app anyway.

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Pretty sure Starling increase limits too friction free these days too, doesn’t it do some checks in app then raises the limit for that transaction. Or did I dream up reading about it 🤷

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You weren’t dreaming. I had this experience recently.

I hope Santander don’t reduce their limit - it’s currently £100k/day - which has proven useful on occasion

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A few years ago (I want to say around 2016?) the Faster Payments scheme trialled “large” payments of multi-million pounds, with a view to increasing the scheme limit and doing away with the need for CHAPS.

I thought that would mean an imminent raising of limits at banks afterwards, but nothing came of it and now it looks like the limit is on the way downwards, if anything!

I am starting to feel that the rest of us are being seriously inconvenienced as a result of these initiatives to “protect” consumers. It might make sense to create some friction for customers who have been identified as vulnerable, but for everybody else it is just annoying. If you are not vulnerable and got scammed, then unless it was an inside job you did something wrong. Especially with Confirmation of Payee now available, I can’t believe that “normal” people seem to so easily fall for these scams time and time again? And why should banks have to refund them, really, when they have obviously been stupid?

I would even opt-out of protection from APP fraud if it would allow me to just make “normal” transfers uninterrupted (I know you can’t anyway, and it’s also all tied up with other work to not just protect the customer but also ensure they aren’t laundering money, but it is really making digital payments awkward).

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That’s interesting, we allow customers to make multiple transfers of £250k via faster payment or we can arrange a CHAPS if required.

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How much do Monzo charge for CHAPS?

£0 :wink:

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Now all I need is a large sum of money and someone to send it to

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I don’t think the Monzo process is all that much of an issue, it’s just the time you take to respond to these requests and support in general. Once you fix that, either with more staff or less need to hop customers between different teams it’ll probably be fine.

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Just get in touch when you have the money :wink:

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