APP Scam

If you are unhappy with how your dispute has been dealt with, your first step would be to raise a formal complaint with Monzo to see if it can be resolved.

If it still cannot be resolved to your satisfaction, you should get a letter of deadlock from Monzo and this will let you take the dispute to the financial ombudsman.

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seems to be a lot of investment scams going around , only to increase in these times, bearing in mind most banks give out less than 1% in interest at the moment somebody offering a sure fire bet on x shares, or this investment, that will gain you 10-15 ,20% etc and one doesnt look into it sceptically or find out even if they are FCA registered for example …hmmmm - if something seems to good to be true it usually is …

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Have you reported this to Action Fraud?

Also, have a listen to this.

Also, Monzo may be able to return your money if you’ve been a victim of APP fraud, they aren’t, as far as I’m aware, necessarily able to protect you from all fraud.

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I have raised a formal complaint, and I am awaiting a response but I am worried as I was reading monzo community and which App scam advice which both stated that if I authorised the transaction, the bank would argue that I showed negligence to safety precautions, and I would be held responsible.

There’s a huge difference between them.

“Hello, this is Monzo (calling from a Monzo number), your account is at risk. You must transfer your money into a new account we’ve made for you”

vs

“Hello. Would you like to invest £5000 into beans that grow really really tall?”

Not saying you’ve done the latter but willingly giving your money to someone knowing what it’s for is massively different to being tricked into handing it over.

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They might, but it is up to you to provide sufficient evidence that you did take reasonable steps.

But you originally asked about an investment scam. This is different to APP fraud.

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As others say, the APP code is specific to a certain kind of scam; and it’s possible Monzo might not offer the same protections of that, vs being tricked into buying something else.

This page covers a nice brief of what an APP scam is, and what both you and a Bank need to do to properly be protected under the code:

[That said, I can’t for the life of me find the actual code of conduct anywhere, only news articles about banks signing up. Does anyone have a link?]

The page also outlines what a Bank should do if signed up to the code, and what your responsibilities are.

I would take a read of the above and see where things land - it gives some suggested next steps and complaint templates you can follow (and links to other types of scams too).

It’s important to note that Monzo are not signed up to the APP code, but say they will “follow the intent of the code”; with that in mind, I would focus energy on writing out a neutral timeline of events that explain why you believe it was an APP scam, how/why you covered your committments, and if Monzo followed the banks commitments.

Good luck with seeking resolution either way!

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I think this might be it?

The Contingent Reimbursement Model Code for Authorised Push Payments scams (the CRM Code)

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Hi guys just an update,

My case is still ongoing and may take a little longer, once again in this time, patience is needed for the Monzo team to dispute this. I have faith they will come to a reasonable answer.

They have provided the upmost respect so far when messaging them.

Hope all is well,

Andy

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Just wanted to write on here that just now I’ve been notified by Monzo that my claim has been refunded in full and to give some more details of what happened to me so others can avoid it. The scam that happened to me was pretty much identical to Andy’s. Barclays alerted me to fraudulent transactions that were being attempted on my card on the morning of 28th January. I said these were not me so they were blocked. Barclays then rang and after a few minutes I put the phone down thinking it was a scam. I googled the number which came up as Barclays and then used the phone number checker on Barclays’ website and the number came back as ‘green’ and ‘safe to use’ as it was a ‘genuine’ Barclays number. I then rang back and they confirmed it was them who had just rang me so I said I hadn’t given authorisation for the transactions and so Barclays blocked my debit card and issued a new one. Two hours later the same number rang me back, went through the same script and knew my security question. I thought this was obviously Barclays since it was the exact same procedure and same number. The person on the phone knew about the other two transactions that had previously been tried on my card which i had blocked. This led me to further believe it was the bank as they had all the knowledge without me prompting them. They were very professional and reassuring. They said had i just tried to spend £200 on IKEA and had i tried to set up a new payee to send £500? Obviously I said no these were not me just like the previous transactions were not done by myself. The person then said okay to secure this we need to upgrade your accounts to a level 2 security threat account and in order to do this i had to transfer money from my account to a trusted payee (that’s where my Monzo account came in) and then out to my new bank account which was being generated by Barclays. I was then given the account details to transfer the funds to. I was told in 2 hours to ring Barclays back as my account would then be upgraded and I would need to put the funds back into the allocated accounts (help to buy ISA, savers, current). At 6pm I then checked the app and the funds were not there. I rang Barclays and this is where they said the person had subjected me to a complex scam and said even if I hadn’t pushed the go ahead on the transfer that person was still on my accounts since they had all my details and could have wiped me out anyway. As a result all my accounts were blocked with Barclays and I raised my claim with Monzo as the funds had last left there. Monzo have stated with the evidence i have given the past 12 days they are satisfied i took precaution in trying to identify the source of the caller. I am writing this to show people that even if a fraudster tries to use your card to purchase something and the REAL bank alert you to it, the fraudster may then still pose a threat and try to contact you under the disguise of the bank. I have seen some comments on threads on here being quite negative and questioning people’s actions but hindsight is a fine thing. Please refrain from doing so here. My mental health has taken a battering the last 12 days as I lost everything. Thank you to Monzo and to Theo in particular from the dispute specialist team. They really are brilliant.

Thanks

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Hi Amy, I’m still awaiting Monzo on a decision but I’m glad you got your money back.

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It’s scary but also I find it quite impressive how they’ve developed.

Long gone are “Ello, this is me from your bank number, please give me the monies”

But now they know your card will decline for fraud and then they use that info to convince you they are legitimate because how else would they know? Add in the number spoofing, it’s no wonder that people think they are talking to someone from their bank.

I’m glad you got your money back!

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There incredibly professional mannered these guys, they even put me through security questions etc. Extremely manipulative and all round horrible people trying to ruin lives.

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I’m glad you got your money back, Amy. It’s incredible how convoluted and convincing these APP scams can be, especially with the time pressure added of them calling you and saying we can see transactions happening now, etc.

Am I reading your post correctly in saying that.

  • Scammers, pretending to be Barclays, got you to transfer your own money to your own Monzo account?
  • Scammers again gave you new details of a different Barclays account, to transfer money to, from your Monzo account. (and this account was the fake one?)
  • In their fake “security clearance” bit, they gathered the details to access your account, anyway?

As in, they never had access to your Monzo account, just used it as a distraction technique? I wonder why they target Monzo for this.

I keep saying it in reference to APP scams, but worth repeating for anyone who’ll read it:

  • If your bank ever calls you and ask security details - hang up and call them back on the number on the back of your card, even if the Caller ID looks legit.
  • If you are subject to an APP scam - spend time writing a timeline as to why you thought events were legitimate, like Amy has just done. It will help your case significantly.
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I understand hindsight and getting caught in the moment etc. But this is where the red flag would have appeared for me.

Why can’t Barclays move your money from your Barclays account to your new Barclays account. That would have been my question.

In a real scenario they wouldn’t need you to do this or expect you to have a second bank account to use as an intermediary.

I’m glad it all worked out in the end though :slight_smile:

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I can see getting caught up in the moment happening - I’m sure someone who sounds legit can be enough to convince you. If they speak to an air of authority, why not.

[Anecdotally, whilst going through the conveyancing for my house… Just after we sent the deposit $$, my only thought was… “How do I know they are a legit lawyer?!”’]

I could see myself getting as far through the process as actually moving money to my own account… And then thinking “wait, it’s already safe in this account”.

But yeah I can see how a sophisticated scammer could do it.

I’m just thankful my own millenial “using the phone” anxiety reduces the likelihood of being scammed. I aint answering no calls today.

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Would you rather it was solved faster or you were given a time frame?

As they’d have to review your whole case, reach out to other banks to get estimates then reach out to you to give you estimate

Rather than just doing everything they can to get your money back (which they did)

Yeah I agree - it’s good to discuss and point these things out though for others.

I’ve read lots of horror stories with conveyancing too. So even with transfers to friends for small amounts I get paranoid that I’ve made a typo so I need them to confirm immediately that they’ve received it :grimacing: All the identity check and questioning are slowly helping combat this but there’s a long way to go though.

It really is, they’re very sophisticated nowadays!

Thanks very much!

Absolutely awful I agree, they sound very realistic