Should Pots balances be counted for overdraft fee calculations?

A low balance alert :rotating_light: always prompts me to take one of the 4 actions above. I never let my balance go as low as £0.00 because I view my pots as segregated savings. I choose not to dissave in order to fund current expenditure.

Is it the case that if your balance goes to zero but your pots are positive, that if you spend any money it will automatically deduct it from a pot such as Coin Jar?

Edit: see this screenshot has no mention of drawing down on pots automatically.
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No it doesn’t.
You can’t do that with Starling either. However, in their overdraft calculations, if main balance + pots/goals balance = 0, no fee is charged. And like Monzo, they only allow you to go below zero if they’ve approved an overdraft for your account.

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Okay, fair enough. Appreciate your answer. This is all personal to me, but I prefer Monzo’s current approach.

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My understanding, and you can correct me if I am wrong…

With Monzo if £75,000 in the current account and you have £75,100 in Pots and £100 overdraft not in Pots - then they charge interest on a £100 overdraft despite your account balance being £75,000 in the black (also despite them saying Pots not part of your balance when charging for overdrafts, in the app the balance does include Pots so would not show -£100 but £75,000 which really inconsistent!)

With Starling if £75,000 in the current account and you have £75,100 in Goals and £100 overdraft not in Goals - then they do not charge you any overdraft charge as your account is £75,000 in the black, and hence your account overall is positive balance.

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you would be pretty daft to borrow £100 from Monzo when you have 75 grand in a pot :slight_smile:

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To avoid you further beating this to death, a few points:

  • Yes, using an example with £75,000 does make it sound even more ridiculous, but realistically nobody is keeping £75,000 into a non interest bearing account.
  • As mentioned above, Monzo would alert you to such an incident, to which you can action, resulting in no fees.
  • As also mentioned above, the logic for pots will be the same logic for third party integrations/accounts. And when they come, and pots become redundant, Monzo will have to do 0 backend work to make everything smooth. Starling have a choice to either scrap their existing setup, or confuse people by having a mix of “overdraft aiding Goals” and non “overdraft aiding Goals” (that are third party). Monzo’s by default will be less confusing (and possibly result in less fees in the future - somebody thinks their third party savings will count towards avoiding overdraft charges - and will be very surprised when they start getting charged).
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you may not intentionally borrow it, but you could for example have hundreds set aside in pots and a small sum say £4 left in your account and forget about a reoccurring card payment, they withdraw £25 out of your account and now you are overdrawn by £21. So despite having hundreds in your account Monzo charges you! Starling would not due to your account balance, furthermore if your charges end up below £1 they waive them. I am not saying Starling is better, but when it comes to overdrafts their solution seems better thought out.

If Monzo include Pots in the account balance they should not charge overdraft charges if the total is in the black.

However if they will not take Pots into account when charging overdrafts then they should not be showing them in the balance.

There needs to be consistency. They are either part of the account or not. They can’t sometimes be part of the account and sometimes not!

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Thank you @anon44204028 for articulating my view so I don’t have to :smiley:

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If I have £40 cash and leave half of it at home when I go shopping i only have £20 to spend at the shop unless I borrow off someone. The fact I have £20 at home means nothing while I’m at the shop. If I want that £20 I have to go and get it.

That’s my pots analogy

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Would this depend on how you customised your settings. You’ve either intentionally set up overdrafts or you’ve chosen to bounce payments. These are the customisable options, so your scenario shouldn’t occur in the first place.

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and you are correct Rat on your ability to spend, as you have ringfenced those funds, however until spent they are still part of your money held by Monzo, so IMHO are still in your account as part of your account balance.

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That screen is interesting. I never saw it when I set up overdrafts
They must have changed the screens since then

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if the £25 is a recurring payment - that you had forgotten , does Monzo not then show the screen that Theodore just shared as they haven’t forgotten it and know that its coming soon and you don’t have sufficient funds to cover it ? don’t know, never used overdraft facility and never come close to zero funds luckily :slight_smile:

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I don’t have any reoccurring card payments so not sure if they display a message when they come thru.

No matter the situation, whether you’ve an already approved overdraft or not, Monzo tells you and gives you the entire rest of day to move money out of a pot.

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just talking about your made up scenario :slight_smile:

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Which just for the point of highlighting that Starling only charge for an overdraft when your account is overdrawn, Monzo can/may charge for an overdraft even when your account is not overdrawn (because they selectively chose to omit that part of your account balance which is held in Pots)

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This is an issue of semantics between the meaning of “account balance” versus “available balance”. See the blog post on Pots for clarification:

Because you’ve set it aside for saving, money in your pots won’t be included in your available balance, and you won’t be able to spend it. If plans change or you find yourself low on funds, you can always move money from a pot back into your main account.

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presumably just as Monzo only charge you for an overdraft having warned you that you’re running short of funds , given you the opportunity to transfer from pots and you decide not to transfer any money from your 75K pot to cover the cost of the £25 transaction - your choice, why would you not choose to transfer from your pot :slight_smile:

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The screen probably is fairly new because it appears at the bottom of the feed screen promoting me to finish setting up my account:
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