phildawson
(Sorry, I will have to escalate this.)
61
Banks can write that into their Ts&Cs if they wish to restrict use, but they can’t just arbitrary decide that.
Things like ‘cryptocurrency’ make sense from a risk. However not even legacy banks would force self-employed people to have a business account, as its most likely they’ll lose that account from them switching away.
Oh of course! I was just spitting out what I had found on a quick google!
phildawson
(Sorry, I will have to escalate this.)
63
No worries. Yeah I mean if you are a bank its obviously preferable to have self-employed using your business accounts as you’ll make more money from them usually from the higher charges associated.
If they start going through your transactions to determine if they thing you’re doing business activities to (try and push | force) you to switch to business account then it’s time to switch banks.
Monzo being forward thinking / transparent you’d hope this wasn’t the case in deciding what things are ‘supported’ or trying to play moral police in deciding what legal things it doesn’t want you to do.
It may be that the account has something that is more preferable and hence why that person should switch - you wouldn’t be upset it you were getting a bonus out of it.
I’m also not very familiar with the regulations around business accounts so it could be a legal thing where they have to close an account down if it is a business account on personal account terms - but that is just a guess.
But at least in this situation (my guess again) is that it is a mistake by Monzo or lack of understanding which will hopefully be cleared up.
phildawson
(Sorry, I will have to escalate this.)
65
I think I have issue with the language used in the chat. Its far too informal for such a serious issue of having your account frozen.
It reads like a primary school teacher telling one of their kids off for pulling the hair of kid next to them. We’ve asked you nicely, don’t do it again, or you’ll stand in the corner.
Yeah I see your point - I wouldn’t be too impressed if when I have a grievance it was dealt with like that - hopefully the “official” complaints response has a more formal tone of voice.
Matched betting is not a business, and is not even taxable PERSONAL income, yet Monzo is adamant that it is
Even if it WAS a business, sole traders and partnerships don’t legally need a business account. Why should I be forced to get one
Monzo doesn’t publically offer business accounts yet, so its not even like they’re saying “just open one and it will be fine”, they’re essentially telling me to find a different bank!
Monzo has said explicitly the account freezes were caused by matched betting. As shown in the CS posts. I understand other things may have caused the initial flagging and freeze, but the fact is they have pinned matched betting as a forbidden activity. If its actually due to something else. they should tell us.
Where do you draw the line between “making money” and “business purposes”? What of the following is a business?
Renting a parking space
Frequently selling your stuff on ebay
Your sister once or twice a week pays you to pick her up from the train station
Where do you draw the line, and why would you force normal people who don’t want a business account to get one? Or worse, to close their bank account entirely in this case!
6 Likes
Anarchist
(Press ‘Help’ search ‘Contact us’ or email help@monzo.com or call 0800 802 1281)
69
It’s not really a question of where anyone on the forum draws the line. The final arbiter of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, is Monzo. In this situation, I think someone at Monzo has made a mistake.
Matched betting could be a business, depending on Monzo’s definition of what constitutes a business.
Monzo have the absolute right to refuse to allow what they think are businesses from operating personal accounts.
You are absolutely correct of course. A few years back I had the opportunity to bet with an edge at a local shop. Over more than 800 bets I had a yield of around 8%. But when I ran a Monte Carlo simulation on the series of bets they did turn a loss on some (very few) runs. You obviously know what you are doing so good luck with it and I hope you don’t get closed down. They do not tolerate unprofitable accounts for long.
True. Fortunately, there are plenty of other banks that won’t even raise an eyebrow at this activity. I know from experience as I opened a second current account at my legacy bank solely for the purpose of gambing, including matched betting.
1 Like
Anarchist
(Press ‘Help’ search ‘Contact us’ or email help@monzo.com or call 0800 802 1281)
72
My impression is that Monzo is one of those banks. As I said, I think someone at Monzo has made a mistake. There was a long thread about delays in withdrawals from betting sites which suggests that Monzo have no problem with people using their accounts in this way.
I was referring to bookmaker accounts, not bank accounts. Sorry if not clear as it would have been obvious to anyone who knows the bookmaker’s business model.
To those of you who are hustlers, matched betters, value seekers and arbitrageurs.
You cannot assume you are dealing with someone like you when liaising with suspicious financial firms. What you do is a niche type of activity which takes some effort to learn, which the average person won’t know about.
So do not assume anyone who questions your transactions understands what you are doing. And do not assume that explaining it to them will be sufficient to make them understand, that’s if they even want to. You are doing something they don’t like the look of and in this day and age, banks may well err on the side of caution in these circumstances.
Maybe in Monzo’s case, the bot flags up certain patterns of transactions to high risk merchants which invariably includes gambling firms and combined with guidance from the powers that be, it’s something the security team don’t feel easy with. Firms aren’t really supposed to tell you if they think you are up to something and will either shut you down or tell you to knock it off with some irrelevant excuse, if any.
Regardless of the fact it is perfectly legal to MB, a business doesn’t have to keep you as a customer if they don’t want to and with these firms, sometimes you play by the rules they set or go elsewhere.
But that doesn’t explain why Monzo concluded that matched betting is a business activity and requires a business account rather than a personal account.
Like I said, but everyone decided to focus on irrelevant details instead, the problem isn’t match betting.
It is that’s he’s taking money from friends, providing a service, and then paying the money back with profit. Whether it is match betting or not, it is irrelevant, he is providing a business service.
Hence Monzo stating his account is for personal use only.
But instead everyone is focused on the betting part.
1 Like
phildawson
(Sorry, I will have to escalate this.)
79
Not just the betting issue, and that is mostly from the chat which shows it was due to matched betting being named which he was doing, and that how it appeared to them being run as a business in the transactions between his family and friends.
What has been said above is that even if he was providing a business service, there is nothing in Monzos Ts&Cs to suggest business services aren’t allowed under a personal account. It’s also been stated that matched betting is legal, and also legal running a business using a personal account (the exception being if it’s a registered limited company) so there are no legal implications for Monzo.
People also haven’t been impressed inc myself in how the chat was handled, which I think Monzo should be taking on as feedback that it’s treated too casually. I know I’d be pissed if my account was frozen and then that’s the chat I received.