Just to add perspective ATM charges are not really new in terms of Brexit. I’ve had them in the past while we were still in and had the same as any other local citizen.
It’s more to do with people realising they can charge and more of these appearing more than anything else.
It has nothing to do with where the card was issued.
Also someone up thread said you can’t avoid charges if you use a UK issued card. That’s not true. The HSBC Global Money doesn’t charge for ATM withdrawals with the exception of those that charge irregardless of where the card was issued.
Those that I’ve seen appear to be currently one way i.e. in effect the UK version treats it as though we were still in th EU.
The HSBC Global Money card will also get hit with the charges.
Technically it’s not where the card is issued but rather where the bank issuing it is based. These are usually the same but, for example, Fineco is an Italian bank but their cards have (I think) a UK bin.
You’re quite right about there having been charges before now. What’s different now is that EU banks are charging UK issued card five euro or so per withdrawal which isn’t charged on EU cards.
Fir example, up to a year or so back Credit Agricole wouldn’t have charged on any of the free overseas cards (Monzo, Starling, HSBC Global, Kroo, etc.). Try it now and all of those cards will get hit with a five euro charge. Try it with an EU issued card and there’s still no charge.
For sending money (over SEPA, for example) the banks involved in the transaction will infer where the sender is based from the country code contained in the IBAN. Fineco, for example, uses an IT (Italy) IBAN so appears to be based in Italy and is indistinguishable to other Italian banks to Eurozone/SEPA Zone banks. EU law does prohibit “IBAN discrimination” between SEPA members, and the UK is still part of the SEPA scheme, so this is illegal and could be enforced by the ECJ but the EBA seem to turn a blind eye to it.
For debit cards, the origin country of the card is encoded into the card number (the PAN) as part of the bank’s identifying details (the BIN) meaning that merchants can offer “helpful” things such as DCC - and this charging discrepancy. I believe Fineco still use a UK BIN even though their account has an IT IBAN. Therefore, card machines and ATMs in the EU will still see it as a “UK card” and not an EU one.
The best way to try to avoid it is to find a local small credit union and try their ATM - a real local credit union, regionally, rather than something like Credit Agricole. They are less likely to charge.
I’ve been trying to find somebody who has tried out the Fineco card in the EU lately but it looks like I’ll be the first to do it next week. I gather the legislation says EU bank rather than EU bin but I suspect they’ll still see it as a UK bank due to the bin. Hence, my acquiring a Bankera card.
Indeed, it may say EU bank/financial institution but, in actual fact, the way that country is determined on a technical level is through the BIN.
It’s therefore going to be assumed to be clearly not an EU bank if the BIN is UK - even if, as in the case of Fineco, it actually is an EU bank.
Bankera might be the answer if they only use one BIN for all their accounts (as Revolut used to do, only using a UK BIN for everyone at first) and are based in the EU. I’d be interested to hear how you get on!
It doesn’t. Source, me using it Greece recently at two ATMs. One charged the other didn’t. It’s worth noting the money was in EUR as it’s multi currency so maybe it tricks the machine into thinking it’s a local card. I don’t actually know.
Greece is a bit hit and miss. Most ATMs charge, some don’t. The thing to note is that whilst HSBC GM don’t charge you, they don’t refund any charges that the ATM provider applies.
Basically it’s no different than Monzo, Starling, etc. in that.
I suspect quite a lot of people will get unpleasant surprises on holiday this summer.
One bit of good news… Ireland don’t apply these charges and neither do a number of other EU countries.
What I’m saying is that for those EU banks that have started charging five euros or so for non EU cards then your HSBC card will be charged.
HSBC machines usually don’t charge any other cards from any bank. You can sometimes even use HSBC cards in HSBC machines abroad even when the card says UK use only. In those cases, because there is no provision to charge you anything, they don’t apply any charges. Usually applies to HSBC savings accounts but YMMV. I have used an HSBC UK savings card in Hong Kong for instance.
Yes, but the difference as of 2023 is that there is an explicit difference between EU and UK cards which previously there hadn’t been. Basically it makes life more difficult on hols if you’re looking for a free ATM.
My particular problem is that I’m off to Germany this week and I gather that you need cash much more than elsewhere so I don’t want to be running up lots of five euro charges.
Snag is that article is December 2022 and the charges seem to have kicked in from January this year in Austria, France and Spain. I’ll see later in the week if I’m in luck
I’ve updated the title as suggested. I never imagined my ‘simple’ question would generate so much detailed discussion. I’ve applied for a Bankera account and am just awaiting verification. Not sure if I can do an ATM withdrawal from a virtual card in my Apple wallet, but we will see.
Anarchist
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Greece may be similar to Spain, in that most ATMs charge but some don’t.
For instance Unicaja in Spain is free to use with Monzo (though they are very persistent in trying to convince the user to use DCC; and it’s £12 difference per €100).
