I don’t know I see the opposite happening and hybrids becoming completely irrelevant and a similar drop off in new registrations to ICE. In 2030+ to me it doesn’t make much sense at that point to half ass it. They were always just a quick intermediary step. I kinda agree with this scenario that after 2025 we’ll start to see a plateau and then fewer PHEV/HEVs being sold as BEV options become better and cheaper, faster charging, bigger batteries, better infrastructure etc
2030 is simply a date set to end production of ICE vehicles.
I believe that PHEVs will not be offered long before then if only because they are now regarded as being more polluting than was originally claimed.
Just listen to this man painting the future for the VW group.
That chart simply shows the best wishes of SMMT members if they are allowed to carry on as they are.
BMW have started road tests of their BMW i Hydrogen NEXT for a debut in 2022.
Two 700 bar tanks and empty to full in four minutes.
Basically the same as current ICE X5 but better performance and chucking out water vapour.
I’m all for additional alternative fuel vehicles but I do struggle to see how hydrogen addresses many of the concerns raised about EVs in this thread.
Granted it can refuel quicker than an EV if you live close enough to one of the 11 hydrogen refueling station in the UK but surely the following concerns around EVs still apply to hydrogen?
- “the charging infrastructure needs to improve”
- “I have no off-street parking, so I can’t charge at home” (there are potential solutions, but if you thought the cost of installing a wall charger unit was prohibitive…)
- “the mining of materials for batteries” (many hydrogen cars still use batteries and the fuel cells require rare materials like titanium)
- “the lifespan of the batteries” (EV batteries are typically rated for hundreds of thousands of miles, similar to estimated lifespan of hydrogen fuel-cells)
- “EVs are not affordable” (fuel cells are not cheap either, plus the higher cost for refueling)
I suppose another benefit is that you’ll keep the fuel-transport industry afloat as they’ll need to get the hydrogen all around the country to the refueling stations. And I suppose you’ll keep the fuel industry afloat too as they can sell you the hydrogen.
I just struggle to see the appeal of going this route, particularly when so much progress has already been made towards BEVs and electricity is already ubiquitous.
I do see hydrogen fuel cell vehicles playing a role in transport but not in the private sector.
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I guess (for me personally) this is where I fundamentally disagree. If you can charge at home, the need to refuel that quickly is mostly irrelevant as you can start every day with a full tank.
The refuelling time just isn’t the biggest issue for me, not even close. But I suppose that’s probably because I don’t drive long distances very often (but neither do most people in the UK). If I am doing a rare 500 mile drive, I welcome the break to recharge and eat some lunch.
Sounds like hyperbole from that driver to me, but I could be wrong. Either way, hydrogen isn’t any better in this regard. The fact that you can add any miles at all while doing your shopping is a pro over hydrogen.
Charging at supermarkets is an option for me 
I have regularly charged at Tesco, Waitrose and Asda for the period that I have been in Store or in the vicinity. I have visited Waitrose in Hitchin, plugged in, shopped in store and then spent time in the town shops.
I have shopped in Tesco, had a coffee in the cafe and then had my haircut all the while the car has been charging free of charge.
Of course I accept that as a retiree I can spend the time others don’t have.
My mileage is no longer great and as a consequence my journeys are largely free of cost.
Motor manufacturers are waking up to the fact that people like me are a target market.
Many are both cash and time rich and increasingly are willing to embrace new technologies.
As can be seen in the image below a stop to charge whilst shopping results in significant range increases.
I should add that I don’t have the benefit of off street parking like so many others.
I see Hydrogen EVs to be more relevant for commercial vehicles and once the infrastructure builds then becoming more relevant in personal transport.
It makes more sense for large power heavy vehicles to have hydrogen fuel tanks and to convert to electricity onboard.
There’s the chicken/egg scenario to overcome with infrastructure just like electric faced. We need hydrogen vehicles but they need places to refill.
Yep, totally fair point. I am very fortunate/privileged to be able to charge at home (from solar), to be able to afford an EV and to not be doing long distance drives very often. This is probably skewing my view on the whole thing. There is probably an inherent bias where all/most current EV owners are early adopters and have personal circumstances that are inherently suited to owning an EV.
That said, something still doesn’t sit right with me about hydrogen fuel cell technology. It just feels like an unnecessary, additional, complex step in the process of ‘electricity to miles driven’.
Electricity just feels way more democratic (if that’s the right word) compared to hydrogen. I fear if we go the route of hydrogen we will see a pattern of rising fuel costs, as big corporations will have control over the refuelling process (as they do now).
Worry not 
Solutions are to hand and over time the technology will be expanded to operate in many other areas.
Hyundai is not only entering its own race team in the Pure ETCR championship, but is also providing a mobile charging infrastructure that uses HTWO’s proprietary fuel cell generator to charge all EVs in the series. The charging system can generate up to 160 kW of electricity, boasting an output equivalent to twice that of the production Hyundai Nexo FCEV SUV. The system can fully charge two ETCR vehicles – each equipped with a 65 kWh battery – simultaneously within an hour.
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@Lewis_P They are still EVs at the end of the day it’s just the fueling that’s different. Charging from an electric point, or filling up with the fuel to make the required electric on the go.
When you are talking things like large delivery trucks that weigh tonnes that are constantly on the go up and down our motorways it makes sense to refilling in a few minutes like they do with diesel atm.
I think most trucks would need 500-1000 kWh batteries.
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Just found an interesting site that gives a rough estimate on battery size needed.
947 kWh based on only going on perfectly flat roads. Either way it’s a lot of batteries and weight, and cost.
I guess it all depends on how fast batteries can be safely charged and how quickly we can get those installed over the UK.
Ionity is doing a good job with installing 350 kw charging points. If we can push that to 500 kw 
Considering the 800-volt battery can’t make use of 350 kw its going to take some leaps in tech.
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Looks like VW are aiming for 15min for 5% to 80% with their luxury brands (i.e. Porsche), down from 22.5 minutes. Surely that’s approaching an acceptable recharge time for those concerned? Granted, porsche is hardly affordable to most but it shows progress in the right direction and the technology will permeate to other brands.
Everything is so far away or in small production / testing 
Everyone needs to hurry up and make it so that the average joe can charge as well as afford one 
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Thats why I’m looking at Hyundai Ioniq 5 which is already doing 10-80% in 18mins. About half the cost of the Taycan and a bit more family friendly.
The big however is that is only at those 350 kw chargers not at every charging station down the road.
Theres about 20 of those Ionity points in the UK
Battery cost per kwh has dropped 10 fold in the last 10 years, I wonder where we’ll be by the time the ICE ban comes in to force in another 10 years time;
edit: this thread is so long at this point that these charts have probably already been shown haha.
My understanding is that Hydrogen will be used mainly in the Heavy Transport, Rail and Marine industries.
Of course vehicle manufacturers are developing Hydrogen cars and no doubt in future years they will be widely available.
Hyundai all ready have heavy FCEV trucks on the road and in the U.K. successful trials of hydrogen trains have concluded.
The government is supporting hydrogen transportation.
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There seems to be a lot of grey area around if you can run a charging cable across the pavement too:
Then if someone gets injured by tripping over one, or damages your vehicle as a result you have to prove that you weren’t negligible otherwise you risk losing your no-claims. In that it was covered with a reflective rubber mat thingy and that you were using it to charge. So no leaving it plugged in overnight sat at 100%.
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Just watching some YouTube from the weekend first event.
Starting by lightsaber 
The following camera looks ace a bit like a computer game.
