ATM Fees Abroad: Asking the Monzo Community to decide pricing

Hi, thanks for this opportunity to comment on this idea.

I have to say I’m not really happy with any of these options.

By following any of the three options outlined, Monzo are essentially just becoming Revolut or any of the banks. There’s nothing innovative or genuinely different or uniquely helpful about these approaches. The % figures may be lower - at the moment - but the ideas are old school and not consistent with the notion sold by Monzo that you are a genuinely different organisation with innovative approaches. Isn’t that what you have set out to be? So innovate. Think outside of the box!

If you really mean to help customers while still covering your costs then you need to introduce a new kind of charging system. Maybe a yearly limit, or monthly limits that roll over, or a certain number of free withdrawals or something else that still rewards users who use your card sensibly while charging more to those who (relatively) overuse it.

I doubt even the most parsimonious, anti-fees user would object to being charged once they have exceeded, say £1500 in any given year, say, which is, of course, less than 12x200 per month. That’s because £200/month is just not high enough to cover for required usage in some territories where cash is king. You’ll have instances where a family go abroad once a year but exceed that months limit and then never need to use it again that year, thus not benefiting from every other month’s allowance. This is an old hat, standard model used everywhere from mobile phone minutes to included allowances of any kind - i.e use it or lose it benefits that are of no use much of the time.

It also raises the suspicion that the £200 limit has been arrived at specifically because you expect people to exceed it, which is not really cricket is it, considering all you’ve said so far about your intentions?

Personally I like the idea of an annual threshold, which you can use up in one week’s glorious blowout in the Maldives or sip at sensibly over the year. But I’m sure cleverer people than me can come up with other unique and innovative approaches. Come on Monzo, you started off wanting to be different, so stay different!

Having said all of that, I do also think this whole notion needs to be scrutinised objectively. Yes, it costs you guys when we use ATMs but do you REALLY need to pass it onto users? You’d be losing your USP. Can’t you cover those costs in some other way? With other financial products or premium options etc?

I tend to agree with many other users that once Monzo starts charging for ATM withdrawals a lot of currently happy users will simply switch to the next new card or option, or use a combination of Monzo and Revolut and any and every other card /option available to minimise their costs. Thus Monzo will fail to earn as much from these charges as expected, thus Monzo will look to increase charges in future and thus Monzo will just become A N Other bank, all USPs lost.

Which would be a shame

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Yep, I agree with this poster.

People who object to ATM withdrawal fees, and thus get drawn to Monzo, are not just miserly and tight, there’s a fundamental principle behind the idea that one should not be charged merely for getting access to ones own money. To borrow money, sure; to benefit from some other financial product or instrument, fine. But merely to get access to ones own hard earned moolah? Can’t anything remain sacred in this world?

I was thinking that. Sometimes the general public can’t be trusted!

Eh, the fact that I can instantly access my money from the other side of the world without having to take the risk of carrying wads of cash with me is a pretty valuable financial service. I don’t really see a moral reason why that should be free, considering the networks that allow it certainly aren’t free to run.

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Thanks for the reply

Your point is fair, and I’m not really going to dispute it. It is, as you have identified, essentially a moral point, or a point of principle, where views will vary.

We are charged for everything in life (even ostensibly ‘free’ things tend to carry hidden charges somewhere along the line), so I just feel that in the modern world, where the technology to allow us to access our money is in place, actually getting at our money should be free; thereafter we will pay through the nose for everything.

Or @anon50039658 / @alexs / @anon38211169 etc.?

To be clear - I’m not part of the Monzo team so I don’t have any special insight here.

But this seems like a pretty obvious scenario so I assume that the models have taken it into account.

That might be part of the reason why Monzo have decided to charge 3% for any withdrawals over the £200 threshold, rather than 2%. As according to the blog 2% would otherwise be all they’d need to charge to cover the cost of withdrawals outside the EU.

Obviously they also need to charge more than 2% to cover the costs incurred by users who have made withdrawals under the £200 threshold too..

Edit

@Ralph76 I’ve just spotted this explanation from SimonB

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I just think that as soon as you take away something that’s free, people will adapt to make the best use of leftover free resource, therefore modelling based on prior experience may not accurately capture the reality. As I say, options 1 and 2 seem to cover the cost, but 3 is a question mark.

It’s no surprise it’s popular with users, but is it sustainable (question for Monzo)?

@daniel.cannon explained the challenges with doing this on Twitter today -

If you can’t do an annual allowance, then a trip allowance may work better than monthly. Say £400 ‘free’ per trip and 3 trips per year, you would save on those who take out less than £400 on a trip, compensating those who go on fewer trips but spend more. It could be implemented as travel periods. So once you withdraw money abroad it starts a 30 day period in which you can withdraw £400 for ‘free’, and this can be repeated maybe 3 or 4 times per year.

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Thanks for the info however I think you have got your figures wrong.

As far as I’m aware with option 3 the charges would only kick in for amounts over £200. so if you draw £250 out you are only charged £1.50 (Charged on the £50 only) rather than been charged on the full £250

calendar month is easier :slightly_smiling_face:

Oh damn, yes you’re right, sorry & thanks for pointing it out! Improved chart below…

image

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Option 4…

Currently with my Barclays account I pay £3 per month for the account and get £4-£6 back through direct debits etc.

How about an option like this? A low monthly fee and rather than cash back given, it gives you free use abroad in both EU and the rest of the world.

I guess this may take it away from why people love Monzo but a suggestion none the less.

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Why not just charge the costs on as non sterling transaction fee like the other banks, You don’t have to be different - if they already have a system that works and people understand it.

There is a cost for cash abroad, some one should pay for that and it should be the person drawing out the cash.

So I think just directly charge the cost onto the end user, its transparent and simple.

Or, lend out 9x what you have on deposit like the other banks, make a wedge of cash on the interest and fees (monzo loans) and cover these costs with some of that free money. Perhaps an option in the app to say I’m happy for 25/50/75% of my cash to be lent to others, then we can have interest on deposits.

Why other challenger banks were excluded from the comparison?

  • Starling Bank offers free withdrawals around the globe.
  • Metro Bank similarly started with free withdrawals but now charges 2.75% outside Europe.

Also, are you planning to drop the fees once you managed to establish a profit model?

Monzo, have you really done your analysis on this correctly. You say that in any given month 13% of customers account for more than 85% of total ATM costs in that month. Fair enough, but that is likely to be a different 13% of customers each month. I’m an offender this month as I’m on holiday with the family. For the other 11 months of the year I’m a loyal Monzo user in the U.K. Are you sure this is a minority of users?

Please, don’t complain that customers are using your card as advertised. In fact, you have been giving moneysavingexpert.com readers preferential treatment to get a Monzo card. A site that is advertising your card as a prepaid travel card, not a new banking community in the U.K.

You also state that any charges will apply to both the prepaid card and the new current account. Why? All you need to do to cover the costs in the CA is say that you will give anyone who has their salary paid in to their Monzo CA free withdrawals worldwide.

Don’t ruin your brand with an I’ll thought out knee jerk reaction to cover costs. And definitely don’t link the CA and prepaid cards together. The CA is a whole new ball game. Don’t kill it before it gets started.

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Just 13% of customers account for more than 85% of our total ATM costs in any given month.

Can we check what the proportion is when expanded to a year?

I don’t think we should be charged to access our own money in the UK (which we won’t be), but I don’t think we’re entitled per se to have it for free with an overseas ATM. My friend is studying in Germany and she gets charged to get cash out at ATMs so she always gets a lot out at one go :confused: I’m glad that isn’t a thing here

Inspired by (totally ripping off…) JamieThunder I have just knocked together this quick view to help people visualise fees at various price points (Please note the scale on the bar charts adjust for each amount withdrawn, in order to make comparisons between options easier)
fees

Edit here is what it looks like if the scale ends at £1000 (Make it a bit easier to see at which point an option becomes more expensive)

DataExplorer

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