What we're doing around card payment disputes at Monzo

I echo this massively and think the community gets a bad wrap for being impatient.

We just are a nosey bunch and love to hear what cool things monzo are up to, problems faced etc because were genuinely interested in these things.

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Sorry to hear this, PayPal can be particularly frustrating to file chargebacks against due to how it is legally set up (for the same reason as you sometimes do not have Section 75 protection with credit cards when paying via. PayPal). It sounds like you had a really horrible experience with us though. :disappointed:

It is a series of projects, but hopefully by bringing case management together, we can make it easier to share with you the full case details. Currently it is a surprising amount of work to pull together all of the evidence and decisions made, so it creates a negative incentive to not share case information with you, which ultimately does not help anyone because you may be able to provide some context to it that can help us win the case for you.

I describe chargebacks as a courtroom internally a lot, and cases are only easily won when lawyers (in this case Monzo) and clients (in this case customers) work together, rather than against each other. :slightly_smiling_face:

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This is amazing. And exactly the sort of content that brought me here - and avoids me getting my crayons out!

It’s really good to know the general direction of travel. And I absolutely get your point about folk getting a bit scared off of radical transparency. I’d like to think there’s a nice middle ground, though, where the Community agrees not to beat up Monzonauts, and Monzonauts agree to tell us (even at a high level) if things have changed and therefore aren’t gonna happen at the same pace or in the same way (or at all).

On the substance of what you’ve said, I really like the vision. I’d love to get to the point where more context driven help is available throughout the app, and that there is an easily available update page for various issues that have been logged (a couple of taps to see what the latest is on that chargeback, that complaint or - hopefully - something more positive!).

You also mentioned back office processes. I think there’s a real appetite on here to understand them better. I think that sometimes there’s a general feeling of well, the app hasn’t changed so nothing is happening. I think lifting the lid up see what’s going on with payments, with fincrime, with public policy etc would be really interesting. Especially some top level ambitions - I really liked @zancler’s presentation last year about Monzo in cash based societies. That was all hypothetical, but an interesting insight into the thinking.

Anyway, I’m rambling, but I really hope that sharing all this works out for all of us. :hot_coral_heart:

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Thanks for all that detailed info @Rika

I think we would all benefit from a detailed blog post on Monzo’s How money works blog with detailed information on what our rights are and what type of evidence and situations would make for a good strong charge-back claim.

I am going through this right now with a cancelled flight (let’s just called the anonymous airline Brianair :blush:) at the moment, I’ve no idea how to proceed. I haven’t initiated a charge-back but not sure if I should do or just hold on and wait.

An anonymised list of won/lost cases (to follow from your courtroom analogy) to show as examples of when you should be requesting a charge-back and when instead we would be unreasonable to do so, would also be helpful.

Time limits.

Quick look in the internet on what the time limits are, show that for goods and services not provided, you’ve 120 days from anticipated delivery date or cardholder’s realisation of interrupted service. I take it in my case it would be 120 days from cancellation email (or could be 120 days from scheduled time first flight was meant to depart). What happens after this time? Charge-back cannot be processed at all? The only available options then would be to rely on the good nature of Brianair ( :face_with_hand_over_mouth: <- Me trying not to laugh) or costly involvement of a solicitor? Are Monzo completely powerless after this time?

Is there a time limit by which a company should process a refund they have promised? Or can they just not pay by indefinitely delaying it due to “unforeseen circumstances”. I am a patient man but I don’t want them to run the clock using Covid as an excuse.

What are reasonable grounds to initiate a charge-back?

Flat out refusal to pay back what is yours would be the ideal reason and great evidence to initiate a charge-back, a no-brainer. Is this the only moment when you can initiate a charge-back since you are supposed to “exhaust all other avenues”. I’ve done all I could to ensure this money is refunded but Brianair cannot even give me a rough estimate of how much this process could take, the answer is a directly bland “Impossible for us to say”. At what point should I start worrying and initiate a charge-back? Is this even an option for me?

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Just on your point I had a scheduled flight with another airline just before the lockdown.
My flight out was during the government advice “only necessary travel outside of the country” but because the flight was not cancelled i was unable to ask for a refund.

My return flight 7 days later was cancelled and I’m due a refund for this one.

Could this be grounds for a chargeback for the flight out?

I am by no means an expert, but I would guess no. Your flight operated, but you chose not to take it - this would be something for your travel insurance I think?

Was guessing that, think i checked and the cost of the flight (which would be claimed back) was about the same as my travel insurance excess so decided against all the bother of claiming.

It could possibly be challenged in a court too, but more expense with no guarantee.

Amazingly, several airlines are still running flights in and out of UK airports, meaning the trip is not cancelled.

Richard Colbey, a barrister at Lamb Chambers, says the fact that it is currently illegal to go on holiday to, say Lisbon, means that the contract between the passenger and the airline can be deemed to be “frustrated”. In such cases a refund is due, although the customer may have to resort to the courts to get the money.
The easier option for many will be to claim on travel insurance. Because the government advised against all but essential travel, policies should pay cancellation claims provided you bought it before the pandemic was declared on 11 March.

Source - https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/may/02/coronavirus-travel-advice-refund-change-summer-holiday-rights

I feel seen. Was meant to be going to Lisbon for the first time on holiday this Saturday…

easyJet did finally cancel the flight, but they really bury the refund option and have not been quick to action it

That is a weird quote - I didn’t write it, and it looks like nobody else did either?!

It’s a quotation of the quotation you quoted.

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Didn’t really intend it to show as a quote from @lpoolrob, but I selected the text and then clicked Quote

So, yeah, as @redshift said

No pastel de nata for me…

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Just noticed this in app now :eyes:

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I’m not sure if this is something that has been recommended or in the works already but it would be nice if you add a chargeback section to the app that will detail the current chargebacks that are in progress and how much time has elapsed

Do people do chargebacks that often that it needs a section? I’ve never had to do one

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I had (and won) two from a company which didn’t deliver the service it promised and then refused to refund me. I didn’t keep bugging Monzo every week asking for an update, but I bet a ton of people do. If the work to add a little panel with a ‘do not contact support before [date]’ saves more work than it costs then it could be worthwhile (of course some people would still ignore it, but would add friction).

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A post was split to a new topic: Unauthorised transaction challenge

I have a slight issue with the new process. I have a pending transaction on my account which should in theory drop off after 8 days (its not car rental or a hotel) . When I click something wrong, it says a dispute can only be filed after 14 days of having contacted the merchant. I feel like this advice relates more to payments that are already settled. You used to be able to ask Monzo to return the payment via chat, but this now seems to have stopped. I think this set you apart from the service other banks have provided with debit card issues.

I also feel like you should be able to dispute transactions right away, in my case it was a pub so I contacted the merchant right away in the flesh and they could do nothing as it wasn’t on the till, and they informed me head office aren’t offering customer support.

Really, I already know the merchant can’t help me. And I just need my bank to contact the acquiring bank and to track and sort things in a back office style manner.

Is there not another dispute mechanism that could be put into place for short term/pending transaction issues. After the 8 days elapse, will in app chat be able to help any further? @Rika

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I don’t think the bank is able to dispute a pending transaction. They have to wait until it’s settled - and that’s why you won’t be able to get the ball rolling yet.

If the transaction is pending, the money is still techincally in your account, just ring fenced. If you click “Something wrong?” one of the options should be to lift the hold.

The company still could collect the money however and if that does happen, then that’s when you would need to wait 14 days.

If you do not have the option and the payment is still marked as pending, contact Monzo via in app chat and they can manually remove the hold.

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