You’re right, it’s not an argument for veganism.
My personal view comes from having a pet lamb, pet pig and lots of chickens. Some of which were slaughtered for food at the time but I cannot see the distinction between murdering a pig or a cat or dog.
My pet pig was at least as intelligent as some humans I’ve met with complex feelings and emotions and there is no way I could justify killing it if I’m unable to justify killing other human beings.
4 Likes
I think at that departure from reality this is best left.
1 Like
Fixed that for you 
2 Likes
Just to throw a spanner and move the conversation on a bit, to me, dairy is more cruel and worse than meat.
Dairy involves, prolonged suffering, calf removed from Mother at very young age, and it’s not natural for a mother to produce milk forever unless being unnaturally encouraged to.
3 Likes
How do you all find vegan food products in the shops? Do you rely on some form of “Vegan Certified” logo on food packaging - or just make fair assumptions about food?
I work in the food industry - and have recently been trying to get the Vegan Society logo on the stuff we make - but it’s surprisingly difficult for a lot of foods - e.g. a lot of supermarket oranges are coated with a non-vegan wax.
And to a greater extent - in Europe a lot of processing aids require animal studies before they can be put on to the market / used in food - which is super hard to avoid because a lot of those, generally, aren’t labelled.
Obviously there’s bigger fish to fry in the world of not consuming animal products/byproducts - but how do you feel about these types of things?
3 Likes
I always wondered how far people stretch to avoid animal byproducts, especially due to the use of things like rubber in shoes, small parts in phones, glycerins in toothpaste, tallow in fabric softeners (the list goes on…)
What about fruitarians? These are the real ethical eaters aren’t they? They don’t even want to kill plants in order to survive. Would they consider meat eaters and vegans to both be unethical?
2 Likes
Im sure they would understand vegans, like vegans understand meat eaters 
I do aim to one day be a raw vegan.
1 Like
You just have to make a best effort. There are in general no requirements for products to be labelled if they are vegan or not. And like you say, many many things non-obviously contain or were produced using animal products. Not even sugar is safe.
I would find it infeasible to avoid everything that has a chance of being technically non-vegan. That said, I do not buy shoes with leather, and avoid any product like toothpaste that have non-vegan ingredients listed. If I know for a fact that something is explicitly non-vegan then I can’t kid myself into forgetting that. It’s in the maybe-it-does-maybe-it-doesn’t areas where things fall through the cracks.
2 Likes
And that’s what is important, understanding and respect for other peoples choices
1 Like
Listening to this podcast this now - I know it sounds like the anti vegan but it’s really not. Fascinating listen
1 Like
When i first heard about this 10-15 years ago I was worried and looked further into it. Back then it wasn’t really a problem here in the UK as bone char is only used during the bleaching of cane sugar (and even then not always) and most of the UK’s sugar came from Sugar Beet.
Things might have changed though.
1 Like
Has anyone been to Stem & Glory in Cambridge? They are opening near the Monzo office (in London) very soon…
1 Like
People who sell meat are evil.
But people who sell fruit and veg are grocer.
Boom boom. 
9 Likes
Speaking of podcasts, I really like this episode of The Inquiry, by the BBC World Service. The word vegan isn’t mentioned once, but it presents an excellent argument for changing the way we think about and consume meat.
2 Likes
It’s things like this that make the idea of going vegetarian / vegan appealing to me:
1 Like
I’m not a vegan, I don’t have the time, energy or inclination to ensure that everything in my life has zero animal products in it. I aim to be a conscious minimal waste occasional meat eater.
I do have a pet peeve about the vegetarian / vegan movement in relation to naming things and trying to make things that look like and taste like meat.
Vegan cheese isn’t cheese, it’s a cheese substitute.
If I want something that looks and tastes like chicken, I’d eat chicken and not product X that’s been shaped, etc to look like chicken and almost taste like it.
Let’s not forget that intensive farming of any kind is bad for the environment. All those fields of wheat needing chemical fertiliser and weed / insect sprays. And, let’s not forget water needs, 1.1 gallons needed for every almond.
1 Like
Not cheese? I’m having a ‘call it Gary’ flashback
4 Likes
So I love the idea of veganism but I am such a picky eater already! I really dont like onions and most vegan options in restaurants seem to be very onion based. Like there is nothing easier or tastier than asking for a plain chicken burger. Maybe one day, it just doesnt seem practical at the minute!
1 Like
It seems to be a hot topic in the news at the moment.