The Great Many Crises

Why did you have to show me that?

I want one and it’s 2k

I’d want it to have a normal plug to power the washing machine or something though

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So basically an entire hour of cycling creates enough to toast two slices of toast or maybe iron a couple of shirts?

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That’s a heck of a lot of work for breakfast :joy:

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Probably, but I think that’s one of the better of the 3 options I think we have. As I see it, it’s either higher bills (gonna happen sooner or later anyway), less competition, or tax payer funding. Do we really want to come out of this with a less competitive marketplace, with the greediest companies surviving, and a good justification to push for abolishing the price cap? Personally, I don’t.

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Bulbs accounts are shocking to be fair, they spent too much chasing customers and paying out referral fees along with the we’ll pay your early release fees from other suppliers. Someone over there took a few collective eyes off the ball and just thought they’d carry on getting investors money. How wrong were they, the writing was on the wall for long enough that prices wholesale would go up, but they kept on pushing and pushing.

Of course they still have to be bailed out either way, you can’t just force 1.7 million customers onto another supplier, to then watch whoever that new supplier fails too

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It’ll be interesting to see what the cap (£1277) for avg use goes to in April.

£1500?

£1700?

£2000?

It should probably be ~£2000 to realistically pay the true cost but that would freak everyone out.

@N26throwaway :thinking: having the cap but reviewing every 3mths (or even 2) rather than 6mths to slowly adjust people to the true costs.

That way it can be fairly incremental. If there was no cap we’d be currently paying £2000 yearly for what was £1000 last year like the people that have been tricked into switching to fixed deals now.

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Lots of articles about the 2022 price cap from Sept/Oct, which predicted it would be £1,600, or roughly a 30% increase. Obviously a whole lot has happened since then, but given 30% sounds high as it is, it’s going to be a real shock and a struggle for many people if it goes up more than 30%. If it’s ~£2k, that would be roughly a 60% increase. :grimacing:

Does anyone think that just nationalising energy/water would be the solution?

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If Peleton doesn’t pivot then they’re very very silly.

The wholesale cost should have gone down by then, I would think, if Germany approves Nord Stream

I think at this point it’s a big if!

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True, and actually I don’t think they should approve it, but I feel like they will somehow. We’ll see

Isn’t this already the case in Scotland? Mine’s part of the council tax bill I think. Wouldn’t oppose the same happening to electricity in all honesty, given how essential they are to modern life.

The internet should never be nationalised though. That’s one utility that’s better off not having state control.

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“Should” :sweat_smile:

They should be reflective of the trading prices but I can’t seeing them dropping it back as quick as reality.

In the same way the petrol pumps are still trying to sell near £1.50 litre.

Germany might approve the Nord Stream 2 but at the moment they have rejected it.

Why though? :thinking: just out of interest?

Because it grants them much greater control of the flow of information. An ability to censor and control it in ways that just don’t exist in its current form.

The scope for using that level of control abusively is just far too vast and powerful that I’m not comfortable with governments having that power.

There are a myriad of other reasons beyond this. Aspects of broadband service and quality I’d want to choose myself. Can you imagine a nationalised network dealing with faults, admitting there’s a fault, and getting stuff fixed. Caring about latency, contention, throughout and like.

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But, legally speaking, right now an ambulance driver in the U.K. can request all of your ISP records and with no oversight and no warrant and be granted access. The government are already working with at least one ISP to implement a full on monitoring scheme - and we don’t know which ones. With a cursory court judgement they can surveil several thousand people. I’m not sure exactly what privatisation is protecting us from that isn’t already an issue?

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Right now on this front, from quite a lot. An ambulance sure can request them. My ISP can’t provide them, because they don’t have them, and there’s currently no legal obligation for them to collect and keep them.

Also, I’m pretty sure this is has yet to be passed into law. I know the MD of my ISP has argued against it, and provided evidence to the committee. Who will cover the costs of building the systems to collect the information, the cost of storing it, and safeguarding it? privatisation can push back against proposed regulations, and they’ve done so successfully in the past.

Another is a matter of censorship. I have an unfettered and uncensored access to the internet. The benefit of being with a small ISP. The big guys are all compelled by law to censor your access to the internet in some way, with perhaps Plusnet being the only exception, though I’m not sure how they slip under the radar.

Electricity and water is the same regardless of who you pay for it. For electricity, sure you can choose a company that use your money to source only renewables to put into the grid, but that’s something everyone needs to be moving towards anyway, so would happen with a nationalised system as well.

The internet is far more complex, with varying degrees of service quality, speed, latency, throughout, contention, congestion, a myriad of things that can go wrong. All of which different ISPs treat with varying degrees of importance. So I can pay more for an ISP who provides a higher quality of service.

These variables don’t really exist with the likes of other utilities.

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Snoopers charter was passed in 2016 unfortunately. That bill gives the government power to insist on an ISP collecting and storing ISP records. Whether they’ve done that or not we don’t know because the law also ensures any such orders will be secret. There’s more legislation coming, but what’s passed is already pretty bad.

I mean, I agree we need to be careful and maybe private ISPs help act as a barrier, but not much of one really. If the government wants to monitor everything and people keep voting for that government then nationalised or private, they are going to succeed

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Ah yes! I remember now. And the subsequent ECJ ruling the year later. Not sure what happened with that though, not that it matters anymore.

The power to compel certainly exists, but it hasn’t been utilised beyond of the two unnamed beta testers AFAIK.

They still don’t clearly define what an internet connection record is though, so I’m not sure what they’re expecting ISPs to collect.

This is a great explanation of the issues regarding an internet connection record.

There’s no scope for enforcing control of protocols to make collecting easier, and preventing the use of encryption and VPNs (though they did try). So there’s still some protection in that regard.

I suppose in a way I view private ISPs as something of a firewall between myself and the possibility of the government becoming a threat actor.

If the government were my ISP, and the only ISP I was allowed to have, they wouldn’t* need laws to get some of this stuff through.

*assumption, because I’m not a lawyer, assuming what they do isn’t breaking any other laws, there’s nothing stopping a theoretical Peppa Pig branded ISP from restricting the use of TOR, VPN, Proxies, and encrypted protocols from being utilised within their network.

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