My point is: we have a passport.
We also have a driving licence. Both are acceptable forms of identification.
So we should also have an ID card that provides no solution to a non-existent problem?
Also: no.
If we wanted to make a system for banks, what we’d do is make something like BankID which is what they have in Norway and Sweden.
This can then be used to verify your identity for not only banks but also a bunch of other things, including voting.
1 Like
People find it hard to accept, but this literally exists today, the problem is this data is split across the NHS, HMRC, HMPO the DVSA etc. knocking down the walls and having all of this data flow more freely is the best solution.
I agree with this, we don’t need another physical piece of ID. It needs to be digital and your passport and driving licence linked to it.
I’d also say that I’d expect in my lifetime my passport to go digital in some way.
3 Likes
Another identification reference? Oh, goody.
And we need another ID for this, why?
I see where you’re going with this, but having one system with all of this data in isn’t necessarily a good thing. Convenient + government = disaster. When they have the next data breach I’d rather it be one not all!
I will enquire about the digital driving licenses from our dev guys.
1 Like
2 Likes
This is a really good example of why having this data stored by a bunch of random private companies is a bad idea but we all seem to have accepted it as being ok.
5 Likes
I’d disagree. Digital-only records make us more vulnerable (to hacking, solar storm, Amazon Web Service’s mercy, etc). We still need hard copies.
I totally get the anti national ID sentiment a lot of Brits have, seeing how much this government has wasted money on outsourcing vital services. Maybe as other nations become more vulnerable with a single-data-point ID system, the UK might turn out to be the safest because we couldn’t get our 
together. What an epic way to fail upwards. 
1 Like
No I’d counter that by saying I need something that lives in the Wallet app of my phone (with the option of a physical card if you still want that).
I should then be able to pick who I share the specific lines of data with and for how long.
Ironically this should already exist with the driving licence check code system, yet here I am still watching the staff at Avis photocopying my driving licence…
1 Like
A passport (international travel document that is expensive) or a driving licence, which not everyone can have (people with medical issues that aren’t allowed licences exist).
The problem does exist. There are circumstances when you have to prove you are legitimately in the UK. Right to Rent, Right to Work.
Some elderly people for example could very much struggle to prove they’re British and entitled to certain things, there is definitely a very small but very disadvantaged group of people that are in a gap where they literally can’t get these documents.
Onboarding everyone onto a national identity system is the way to fix the gaps here. Remember that sometimes having documents provides you with protection as well as privileges.
You mean national identity backdoor via banks? I rather trust government to do it rather than private sector banks lol.
I think we steal the Japanese MyNumber card both digital and physical. Realistically the physical card needs to exist because not everyone is digitally included and we need to account for people who can’t use digital services.
For the aforementioned reasons that you don’t care about (but that doesn’t matter, but they’re still valid).
Government does hundreds of projects and you maybe hear of one going badly every half decade or so… this is the opposite of survivorship bias.
If all your data needs to be in this system for it to be useful to hackers, having the data itself in public is not really useful. A data breach suddenly needs to become real-time security breach to have any meaning.
I hope they just Apple Wallet it.
Japan fixed this by making their national identity card illegal to make copies of. As a result some of the non-Japanese living there who used to have to produce resident cards have swapped over because they know that companies wouldn’t even think about making a photocopy of that card.
2 Likes
If you’re a British or Irish citizen.
If you’re a British or Irish citizen, you can prove your right to work in the UK with either of the following: A British passport, an Irish passport or passport card. Your British or Irish passport or passport card can be current or expired.
If you do not have a passport or passport card, you can prove your right to work with one of the following: a UK birth or adoption certificate, an Irish birth or adoption certificate, a certificate of registration or naturalisation as a British citizen
You must also give your employer an official letter or document from a previous employer or a government agency. For example, you could use a letter from HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC), the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) or the Social Security Agency in Northern Ireland. The letter must show your name and National Insurance number.
Proof of address does this. Or you meant immigration status?
I wasn’t aware this was such a big problem. I can’t think of a single elderly person who would struggle to prove they’re British. Admittedly, I don’t know every elderly person.
No thanks. Maybe onboard the elderly.
Not a chance the government will issue free national ID cards. They will come at a cost. And even if they were, that still comes at a cost.
If there are gaps, fill the gaps. Don’t make a “very small” minority change things for everyone unnecessarily.
So now we’re going over a couple of issues at once - not everyone has a copy of these documents to begin with. For example, I don’t have a letter from HMRC, DWP or SSA.
I know my national insurance number, but that isn’t enough.
Admittedly, I have a passport. I have a drivers licence. But there are definitely people in the position to not know that.
Oddly enough, immigrants to Britain are in an easier position than nationals without these documents. They have share codes.
These documents however are a bad standard to begin with. People who want fake ones can get fake ones and really, employers (especially SMEs) aren’t in the position to check these things properly. They don’t have the expertise in house.
Result is that having a national identity card and an app where they can verify this on the spot, having all of the checks done already, is the solution. Unfortunately, we still allow employers to accept documentation.
I don’t either, but it definitely exists. It’s not an every day thing. I imagine homeless people are also in the remit of who it affects. They’re probably more likely to not know anyone in a position to sign letters for them to get these documents after all.
I think you can accept an additional £20 every 10 years. That’s pretty much what it costs in other countries. Maybe they could even work out a system where you only need one of the aforementioned ID documents (thus if you had a passport you could opt to use that or a passport card instead).
Fill the gaps how? We tried that with voter authority certificates, cheap pieces of paper that says you can vote but are actually just terrible. We tried that with drivers licences but not everyone can have them. We tried that with passports, but they’re expensive and require signatures from people in good professions.
The solution we haven’t tried is the one everywhere else realised was the correct one to begin with.
3 Likes
They are documented. Unless you’re talking about the ones that aren’t, and that’s a whole separate topic and one that national ID cards will not have any bearing on whatsoever despite the government telling you it will.
Fake national ID cards are harder to manufacture and easier to detect than fake documents saying you have immigration status. I also think we could just (for them) make check codes the only option.
2 Likes
But you have a birth certificate or can get a copy.
They have to get share codes on top of seeing physical documents. The share code will show your photo and date of birth to the employer and what you are entitled to in terms of work. The photo they see on screen should match that of the person they saw and documents that person presented.
The DBS schek employers do also provides another layer of ID check as the applicant will still prove their identity and address to the checking service.
Employers only need someone with working brains and proper sight.
I know some throw a blind eye during these checks.
During Covid I started a sensitive job before my DBS could return as I didn’t have one on update service yet. Just that I was still employed in a similar role and had a previous DBS that was not relevant they just let it slip. I started and they got the DBS later.
Can’t literally anyone get a copy of the birth certificate? Also, the birth certificate itself isn’t enough. So I’m still up a creek without a paddle in those circumstances.
I never proved anything for my DBS check, iirc. I had to get one as Shanghai Police wanted it to do my work visa. Granted, it was only the simplest one.
When was that? Even the basic check requires a passport, or NI or UK driving license. At the moment you need a GOV.UK One Login to do a basic one too. You are still verified in some way. I am wondering how you did yours without proving anything.
Why?
Birth certificates are not proof of identity because they don’t contain a photo and it’s too easy to get them. Banks don’t accept them for adults, only for parents opening accounts for children.
2 Likes