The Colour of the Debit Card

(Eve) #230

I paid for my iPhone with Apple Pay. Well over £30 hahaha


Awesome, I didn’t know this! Cheers for the info :slight_smile:

(Allie) #232

For MasterCard and Visa, definitely. There’s still as shocking number of shops (GBK, for one) without CDCVM support for American Express.

Also the situation is the same for Apple Pay - PIN or Fingerprint (or, now, Face) for CDCVM. The difference is that in the UK Android Pay allows No CVM (with the £30 No CVM limit), Apple Pay is CDCVM or nothing (it will fall back to No CVM in the transaction flow if the shop doesn’t support CDCVM for your card, but you still have to complete the CDCVM verification to complete a payment) in the UK.

In Japan, Apple allows No CVM for transit transactions on FeLiCa (not technically No CVM since it isn’t an EMV transaction flow, but same concept), and in the US Android Pay does not allow No CVM. So this is regional.

(Allie) #233
  1. Do you mean the physical card? If so, what country was this in? Again, the £30 limit relates to No CVM. Many cards are programmed to allow chip and PIN over contactless for amounts over £30, but this depends on the shop supporting online PIN, rather than offline PIN like a contact chip and PIN transaction in the UK is (this is why foreign-issued chip and PIN cards may fall back to signature here, as they use online PIN on contact in some countries). Most British terminals do not support online PIN. If BP now does in the UK, that would be a quite interesting development indeed. Online PIN means the bank checks the PIN, it has the benefit of allowing instant PIN changes, resets, etc remotely. But it requires additional encryption setup. Offline PIN is checked by the card, common in Britain, easy to implement, but means PIN changes have to be written to the card. Offline PIN also can’t be used as a contactless CVM as the card is taken away before the PIN is entered.
  2. Mobile payments don’t use online PIN CVM, they use CDCVM (cardholder device CVM). CDCVM is easy to implement and at least MasterCard will be requiring it as part of their terminal certification standards.


yep it with physical card in UK (Chelmsford) but it not a directly owned BP garage but a franchise BP garage so not sure if that means they use a different POS terminal model or not

(Allie) #235

Nice! Very nice to see somewhere, anywhere in the UK with online PIN support. It is like finding a unicorn :slight_smile:

(Harry) #236

It actually depends on whether the merchant has completed a firmware update on their devices which allows for transactions over £30 when paying by Apple Pay.

Apple has seemed to try and push this more recently to retailers, I’ve used it for over £30 at Pizza Express and IKEA recently but it was declined at Tesco.

So I guess it’s a bit of trial and error…

(Allie) #237

Yes, they need to support CDCVM. MasterCard is going to require this, so it’s rare to see a shop that doesn’t support it for MasterCard. Out of curiosity, was your experience at Tesco with American Express? I can’t imagine spending over £30 at Tesco in one trip (I’m single) so can’t really test, but I’d be surprised if they don’t at least support CDCVM for MasterCard with their latest firmware update given they just did it this summer.

(Harry) #238

@GalaxyMergirl It may have been… I can’t be sure to be honest and it was at Tesco for fuel (not their main store, so they can have different firmware?)

I’ll try next time I get petrol and report back! :wink:

(Allie) #239

Definitely likely to be different, and Tesco didn’t even support American Express for mobile payments (they require a newer kernel with Amex due to the online-only nature) at all until this summer, and lots of places don’t support CDCVM for Amex.

(Harry) #240

@GalaxyMergirl IKEA do :wink: but yeah I can’t be sure if I used my MasterCard or AMEX for that particular transaction.

(Allie) #241

Lots don’t, but most still do. I’ve bought hundreds of pounds worth of furniture with CDCVM at IKEA. Which is a huge improvement from a year ago, when they didn’t support Amex contactless (even physical cards) at all.

(Harry) #242

Definitely, we seem to have come a long way in the last year when it comes to this!

(Allie) #243

Indeed, in quite a few areas. CDCVM support for MasterCard/Visa. Amex working, at all (with contactless). Payments are getting much more reliable, in the UK at least. Leave, and it’s still a jungle of unreliability, forced DCC and general issues.

(doutatsu) #244

Well sorry for being a non-native speaker and not using British English sometimes


You’ve responded to an example of British humour. It’s sometimes not readily understood by non-Brits. Our humour is a little peculiar sometimes.

I don’t believe that contributor meant anything other than a wry smile by the comment. You can rest easy.


it was a joke, no offence intended

(doutatsu) #247

Fair enough, I had a condescending voice in my head when reading that sentence. Good to know it’s just me

(Allie) #248

One thing about sarcastic humour is it often doesn’t translate to the Internet well, or writing in general. Sarcasm is very dependant on tone, which written English doesn’t represent at all.

Emoji, however, do represent this quite well. I think this is a good example of why emoji use should be more widespread and Monzo is on the right track. :heart_eyes:


Emoji are not a good idea as what one emoji means to one person may not be the same as another. In particular when you find the names for certain emoji they are often trying to display a different emotion to what you think. Maybe all emoji should include their title underneath?

This is not just my opinion but a matter of common misunderstanding and you will find various articles on the subject't+mean+what+you+think+they+do&pc=MOZB&form=MOZMBA