Rise of AI | ChatGPT, Dall-E, Midjourney etc

Shame people are attacking it causing the API to go down all the time…

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It’ll be the Americans because they’re salty that the Chinese are beating them at their own game again

Just like they are doing with electric cars

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Seems they are already uncovering fairly serious privacy/security issues…

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“it seems the only difference here is that US companies are trusted more than Chinese ones”

The second article they had an insecure data base wiz contacted them and they secured it.

It’s funny how they are really going after a Chinese company yet chatgpt gets a free pass.

The whole privacy angle feels like a diversion to safeguard big tech profits by trashing on the Chinese.

AWS and Azure are already offering hosted DeepSeek and it’s only a matter of time before the incumbents are forced to massively drop their inference pricing.

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I agree. I think that’s why I think we need to be distinct between the model (which AWS and Azure are providing hosted services for) and the Chinese-run service from its creator via the Deepseek app (which no one needs to use just to use the model), which is essentially just one of many services offering access to it.

A point of caution though, is that the service is also offered via API, which some aggregates are choosing to use (at least right now) instead of self hosting it. Though the reported security incident was fixed prior to publication, which you’d be forgiven for not realising having read the 9to5mac article.

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Where can we actually use the deep-seek model, without logging on to the Chinese hosted server out of interest?

I want to ask it about Falun Gong and see if it comes up with the same censored rubbish the hosted model does

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That sort of censorship though, if you watch carefully, is being applied in front of the model. The model begins to outline its reason, and even begins to formulate an answer, before the deepseek service overrides the answer with the same boilerplate response every time. So running the model yourself (or a third party running their own instance) means it won’t be susceptible to that same censorship. That’s something the deepseek app has built on top in order to comply with the laws of their land.

So you can self host it on your own machine, or rent a server from Microsoft, or access it for free via GitHub. Perplexity is now self hosting it on US based servers and no longer using the API, so that’s a solid place to start. Info on their setup here:

https://www.perplexity.ai/help-center/en/articles/10496197-about-the-r1-model-used-for-pro-search-on-perplexity

Here’s the answer I got from Perplexity’s hosted deepseek R1 model with the prompt tell me about Tiananmen Square that was used above as an example of the censorship, so you can see it’s not present here:

Tiananmen Square is one of the largest public squares in the world, located in the center of Beijing, China[6]. The square, whose name comes from the Tiananmen (“Gate of Heavenly Peace”) built in 1417, was originally constructed in 1651[1].

Physical Features

The square underwent major expansion in 1958, growing to four times its original size and covering an area of 100 acres (40.5 hectares)[6]. Several significant structures surround and occupy the square:

  • The Monument to the People’s Heroes in the center
  • The National Museum of China on the eastern side
  • The Mao Zedong Memorial Hall in the southern portion
  • The Great Hall of the People on the western side[6]

Historical Significance

The square has been central to many pivotal moments in Chinese history. Mao Zedong proclaimed the founding of the People’s Republic of China there on October 1, 1949[1]. During the 1950s, each National Day was marked by large military parades, following the Soviet model of celebrating the Bolshevik Revolution[1].

1989 Protests

A significant event in the square’s history occurred in 1989 when student-led demonstrations took place from April 15 to June 4[4]. The protests began following the death of reform-minded CCP General Secretary Hu Yaobang[7]. The demonstrations, which grew to include approximately one million people at their peak, called for democratic reforms and addressed concerns about inflation, corruption, and political freedoms[4].

The protests ended tragically on the night of June 3-4, when military forces were deployed to clear the square[2]. The event resulted in numerous casualties, though exact numbers remain disputed[5]. This incident has become a broader symbol of resistance and human rights advocacy[2].

Modern Usage

Today, Tiananmen Square continues to serve as a major public space in Beijing. Each flagstone in the square is numbered to facilitate the assembly of parades[6]. The square remains an important location for official ceremonies and public gatherings, while also serving as a significant tourist destination.

Citations:
[1] Tiananmen Square - Wikipedia
[2] https://europeanvalues.cz/en/the-tiananmen-square-massacre-politics-of-memory-35-years-later/
[3] Asia for Educators | Columbia University
[4] 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre - Wikipedia
[5] Timeline: Tiananmen protests - BBC News
[6] Tiananmen Square | Definition, History, & Facts | Britannica
[7] Tiananmen Square incident | Massacre, Summary, Details, & Tank Man | Britannica
[8] Tiananmen Square: What happened in the protests of 1989? - BBC News
[9] Tiananmen at 35: The Ongoing Struggle for Human Rights and Democracy in China | CECC
[10] Tiananmen Square incident - Students | Britannica Kids | Homework Help
[11] What really happened in the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests
[12] Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations - Office of the Historian
[13] What is the Tiananmen crackdown? - Amnesty International


Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share

What it won’t avoid though, is any potential pro-China bias the model may have from its training.

This article from Wired is also worth a read.

There’s a comparison there of an answer about the great firewall from the self hosted model, compared to a provider using the API, and the deepseek service.

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This is interesting but also quite curious. I wonder how on earth they were able to train a model in China on sources and information that you could be arrested for accessing. Or was it not trained on this stuff and it’s just using its reasoning model on live sources?

The perplexity one does give a non-censored answer for a range of topics (I’ve just tried it) and I couldn’t detect any strong pro-china bias in the responses for the questions I asked.

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In the case of Perplexity it is using the reasoning model on live sources, because of Perplexity’s pro search thing.

This is what Perplexity did with that response:

Here’s Perplexity’s response (still using Deepseek’s R1) for the same prompt but without conducting a web search for resources to feed into the model:

The Tiananmen Square (天安门广场) in Beijing is China’s most significant public space, known both for its historical importance and as the site of the tragic 1989 protests. I’ll provide a comprehensive overview:

Historical Significance

  • Located in central Beijing, it was built in 1415 during the Ming Dynasty
  • Named after the Tiananmen (“Gate of Heavenly Peace”) which separates it from the Forbidden City
  • At 440,000 square meters, it’s one of the largest city squares in the world
  • Site of many significant historical events, including Mao Zedong’s proclamation of the People’s Republic of China in 1949

Notable Features

  • Monument to the People’s Heroes
  • Great Hall of the People
  • National Museum of China
  • Mao Zedong Memorial Hall (containing Mao’s mausoleum)
  • The famous Tiananmen Gate with Mao’s portrait

1989 Pro-Democracy Protests

  • Between April and June 1989, students and civilians held peaceful protests advocating for democracy, freedom of speech, and economic reforms
  • The protests ended in tragedy on June 4, 1989, when military forces cleared the square
  • The exact number of casualties remains disputed
  • Discussion of these events remains heavily restricted in mainland China

Today

  • Major tourist destination receiving millions of visitors annually
  • Important ceremonial and cultural center
  • Site of national celebrations and flag-raising ceremonies
  • Symbol of modern China and its complex history
  • Continues to be heavily monitored and secured

The square remains a powerful symbol of both China’s achievements and challenges, representing both national pride and historical controversy.


Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share

So we know from the example in the Wired article, and the response here, that it does seem to have access to data that would be prohibited in China. You posted above about ChatGPT accusing them of training their model on their data, and there’s probably truth to that, which would explain it. I also think, no matter how sophisticated your firewall, it’s never going to be perfectly fool proof, and these AI crawlers quite literally crawl the open internet. There’s going to be no avoiding the unwitting collection and use of data that is prohibited. Hence when they have to override certain responses with that boilerplate answer. But I don’t know for certain how, in any case. I can only make an educated guess, and that’s my guess.

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I cannot express how unsurprising that is to read :rofl:

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