Refund/Chargeback

Thank you all for your help and enlightenment!

So the tldr was nothing to do with banks but a classic PayPal scam where the scammer asked you to send via friends and family as they knew PayPal won’t protect the transaction.

Did you still want people to close their Monzo account? It sucks being scammed but the anger is in the wrong place. Unfortunately I’d be surprised if you see the £75 again.

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I’m very sorry to hear what happened. It must be frustrating. Thank you for sharing your experience. It will help others to inform their decision on whether or not to use Monzo to fund PayPal purchases. However, I agree with the consensus here that you don’t have a case against Monzo. Your case is with PayPal.

Monzo are not the only bank to have such terms and conditions. Halifax also stipulate this for the use of their credit cards, and I’m willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of other providers have similar restrictions on purchase protection. So if you’re not going to bank with Monzo for that reason, you shouldn’t be banking with them either. Here’s a screenshot of that section on the Halifax website:

This is actually pretty common. Section 75 protection doesn’t usually apply if you pay via PayPal. More on that here: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/PayPal-Section75/

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Just to reiterate the last couple of posts, they are correct.

When bank A pays service B and service B sends your money to scammer C, the only party who can help you are service C.

You have no claim against bank A because service B received the money. That’s where their responsibility ends.

Personally, this kind of risk is why I avoid Paypal wherever possible. I stopped using my account years ago, and if merchants only have a Paypal checkout I will more often than not shop elsewhere instead. In the rare instance where I have no choice and have researched the merchant carefully before paying, I will also contact them to ask them to consider having a better check-out option.

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There’s not a single bank out there that are going to have anything to do with a third party provider.

It’s like having Bob the bad independent mechanic doing some work on your Fiesta and then complaining to Ford that your car’s fucked and wanting them to do something about it.

Maybe not the best example, given for your example to work, Ford have to not be in the chain, while with the payments issue at the start of this thread Monzo are in the chain.

Thus in real life, if you took your car to Ford to have it fixed, and Ford subcontracted the job to Bob the Bad Mechanic, then Ford would be responsible for making it right to you.

It’s very hard to think of an analogy that actually works, as this kind of liability seems limited to financial transactions.

Sorry, I’m being awfully picky, I know. I’ll get me coat.

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:coat:
:wink: For clarity in this hypothetical situation Bob the independent mechanic has nothing to do with Ford nor have you taken it to Ford to then be subcontracted out to Bob.

It could have been complaining about the work done by Bob on your Fiesta to VW in my example and it’s still the same outcome. They would be well take it up with Bob. :man_shrugging:

Bob then goes look I fully explained to you that it’s unlikely that replacing the part would fix the issue but you said proceed anyway.

You reply with, but the person I’ve just met said I should go ahead with it.

Yeah it’s a loose analogy. The key take away is :point_down:

There’s not a single bank out there that are going to have anything to do with a third party provider.

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It’s both there faults they should both chip in and pay half and half to be honest!..

Why?

It really, really isn’t!

You won’t want to hear this but ultimately you’re responsible for this - being taken in by the scammer.

There is a reason why Caveat emptor is a well established proverb.

Yes, PayPal should be doing more to protect buyers and cooperate with the authorities to trace then but you knowingly choose the non insurance option

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Unfortunately I am a loyal customer to Monzo but this has just happened to me. A merchant has taken £494 out of my account when I told Monzo to cancel this they allowed it to go through and ultimately allowed me to go into an unarranged overdraft. I did not have an overdraft with Monzo at the time however, Monzo authorised the company to take £494 out of my account even though I told them to block the merchant and not allow the payment - now even after I have complained nothing is being done to get my money back and I am now going to struggle to pay my rent and other bills - any advice on how I can take this matter forward to get my money back would be much appreciated!

Is this what Monzo said when you raised the issue?

To clarify, did a merchant take it out, or did you send a payment manually? As the former is what happened in this thread.

I told them my issue and they told me to contact the seller myself and deal with it - I have done this already… but they are not helping me take things further and I don’t know what to do or what my options are. What do you think I should do? @Ordog

Merchant took it out after I had told Monzo to not authorise the payment

Why won’t the merchant help? Do they believe that they are entitled to the money? :confused:

It’s fine if you don’t want to share this information but the merchant clearly believes that they’re owed the money and you say that they’re not. Without knowing the reason from each side it’s hard to say who’s right and who’s wrong. Therefore it makes it difficult to point you in the right direction.

I guess this is why Monzo don’t want to get involved :man_shrugging:

I am curious as to how this is the case.

Are you saying that you could not afford what you were actually going to pay £494 for in the first place??

Or is it because you realised that you could not afford this purchase and actually tried to cancel the order and the Seller decided to take the money and fulfil the order anyway, leaving you short of your rent and bill money?

Are there goods on the way to you for the £494 paid?

If it is a scam website, please share the details to warn other forum users.

I hope it works out for you whatever the root cause. Losing that sum of money is hard for many people!

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There are a few cases here, so I’m going to cover them separately

Intermediaries (such as PayPal, Curve and similar services)

When you choose to use an intermediary to pay someone else, then any disputes need to be handled through that intermediary. This means that if you choose to pay for some goods using your PayPal account, you need to raise any disputes with PayPal

In these cases, the transactions between Monzo and that intermediary become what’s known as “staged digital wallet” or “account funding” transactions. Any dispute for these can only be raised on the basis that the intermediary failed to apply the funds to your accounts or that the intermediary wasn’t authorised to take those funds from your account

We won’t raise chargebacks for such transactions because there is no chance of winning them

(There is another basis - the intermediary didn’t have your authorization to take the funds in the first place - but in practice most such intermediaries have very robust controls against this)

Transaction Blocking

I don’t have access to the specifics of your account, and if I did I couldn’t discuss them on this forum, but in general

  • We have the ability to block existing recurring transactions. Support can do this for you
  • We cannot block other types of transaction
  • We cannot block an already authorised transaction from presenting

Transaction blocking is not foolproof. We do encounter some misbehaving merchants who will modify their messages in order to bypass it (Doing this intentionally is a scheme rule violation, but that is a separate matter)

As always, if you believe your card to be compromised, we would recommend freezing and replacing it; though, as with transaction blocking, this also cannot block an already authorised transaction from presenting.

Chargebacks

We can raise chargebacks for valid reasons (for example, goods or services not provided). However, it is important to note that chargebacks are a dispute resolution process of last resort. Before we can raise a chargeback on your behalf, we will need to see evidence from you that you have contacted the merchant and they have not responded satisfactorily

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