It depends. With some machines they are the same but with others they are different. It depends who they sign up with as to what tarrif they are on
1 Like
Fair enough - I assumed it would make absolutely no difference because it is just another card payment but I guess the world isn’t fair.
there was 14p difference between chip and pin and contactless tariff for one of my local shops as he was discussing it recently. he got his staff to offer customers the contactless option but if customers refuse then accept chip transactions
1 Like
I have heard elsewhere it does make it cheaper sometimes, with less fees charged to them, I assume it may have something to do with them being done offline and in bulk??
Only ever had the problem with small merchants though not major ones they don’t care because they get very favourable rates…
1 Like
That’s what I was getting… and I was happy to pay using C&P rather than contactless as they were holding my curry hostage, but I guess they as a retailer can refuse my offer of payment - thanks for the clarification… will have to make sure I don’t forget that 7th PIN I now have 
(my new fuel card even needs a PIN now that I can’t change!)
on older mobiles they had an alphanumeric keypad so I tweak or change my pins to be a number that spells a word. they are easier to remember then
I use a PIN generation algorithm
that must make them easy for you to remember 
but no more secure
2 Likes
I’m imagining them strongarming you into placing a card against the card reader whilst you try to resist.
…or perhaps they didn’t force you. 
3 Likes
The security of a PIN is in the limited number of attempts someone has to crack it.
My system protects against anyone shoulder surfing me, lifting my wallet and using the PIN they see to access all of my cards. (Unless they can derive my alogrithm, but I think that unlikely especially from one example and I think I might notice someone following me around watching me repeatedly use my cards )
Apple said that about the iPhone tell the FBI cracked it.
I think an iphone has a rather larger attack surface than the secure element in a card chip!
1 Like
Well you say that but I think it is based off JavaCard in which case there are vulns…
There are certainly vulnerabilities (I thought the overlay attack on PINs was particularly clever) but you can’t seriously argue that a multichip, pin and connectivity exposed general computing platform has an attack surface comparable to an encapsulated 6 pin secure device?
I’m not 
I’m just saying that there are vulns in the platform and it is relatively difficult to test for them. For instance, did you know your SIM card inside your phone is capable of running programs (on its own)?
I designed the parent of one of the chips in your phone…
2 Likes
…whoops 
Therefore you’ll agree that would be an interesting exploit. They didn’t have much success at DefCon a while back
This reminded me of my Collage College days and time I wasted playing silly snake on my Nokia 8310 
@crablab check this maybe interesting to know (Sorry slight off topic)
1 Like
Wow. How was this even possible?! I hope they got a massive fine for DPA breach…
I’ve not made a collage since I was a kid.
2 Likes