Meat Eaters

(James Blackwell) #65

We can adapt and change much quicker than this in reality. Already people have got longer thumbs from the use of mobile phones etc this has taken a very short amount of time to start happening. The gut can adapt to different foods incredibly quickly

#66

Absolutely not from evolution.

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(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #67

Might be sooner than that.

I don’t have a source, but I heard recently that lactose tolerance is a relatively recent change. Just 10,000 years ago there was a genetic mutation in Eastern Europe which allowed humans to tolerate cow milk.

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(James Blackwell) #68

It’s how evolution works the body has adapted to cope with it’s souroundings that is why son children are now born with longer thumbs than they were 30 years ago. It is the definition of evolving.

(James Blackwell) #69

Exactly we can evolve incredibly quickly if we need too.

(James Blackwell) #70

So breakfast this morning is sausage and bacon from hand reared pigs with eggs from hand reared free range chickens and homemade bread made with local ingredients. Non of the produce has travelled more than a mile to be at my table and is sorced from small local farmers

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(Dan) #71

The lack of a nervous system, brain and pain receptors are three things that say plants don’t suffer pain.

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(Dan) #72

You may feel that. The science would suggest that it is not true.

(James Blackwell) #73

Hey do respond to stimuli though using electrical pulses this could assimilate pain we don’t know as we can’t ask them and they have no way of showing or telling us.

(Dan) #74

And odd choice of words. Cutting the life of an animal that one assumes would really rather not die very short is, I would suggest, not at all humane or respectful.

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(Dan) #75

Difficult this… Should we respect the views of people who think, for example, it’s okay to murder or harm other people?

Surely there comes a time when views must change. The science is very clear now that animal agriculture is causing huge environmental damage. Isn’t that enough reason to justify the fact that eating meat or not shouldn’t be a matter of personal choice?

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(James Blackwell) #76

An animal we bread solely for meat or is hunted to stop the numbers getting past manageable or sustainable. It is done very quickly with as little fuss as is possible I can invite you to watch one day to prove the humanity of it.

(James Blackwell) #77

I don’t agree with murder but I do believe that most murdered do it for what they feel is good reason weather that is mental problems or a mixed up believe that it’s right they still believe it.
That’s not to say it’s right though.

(Dan) #78

Thanks for the invite but you can’t prove the humanity of it; it isn’t humane.

I once ate and enjoyed lots of meat. I have experience of rearing animals for meat. I too once believed eating locally produced animals on a small scale was a good thing. I no longer do. The science suggests environmentally it is very bad. The science also suggests that for human health, eating animals and animal products is very bad. The evidence (through numerous films, for example) suggests that animal agriculture is hugely cruel and barbaric.

I’d encourage you to keep an open mind, to read, watch and try to find out more about a meatless diet; the benefits for the environment, for you - and for the animals.

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(Dan) #79

Do you think that we should respect a murder’s view that it is right for them to murder?

(Dan) #80

Without wishing to appear rude, this really is a very daft thing to try to argue.

Of course it’s also the case that it takes up to 16kg of plants to ‘create’ just 1 kg of meat.

If you think about then… meat eaters are indirectly ‘killing’ far more plants than vegans and vegetarians.

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(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #81

Same here. Muesli, milk and a banana. All locally sourced from the Co-Op up the road. :+1:

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#82

No it doesn’t. The science suggests that current popular methods of agriculture for both livestock and crops are not great, it also suggests the improved methods of agriculture can greatly reduce environmental impacts for both livestock and crops. Your information is about 10 years out of date.

I don’t think meat eaters are arguing that, i think they’re arguing that people need to wake up to the reality of the world. You can go vegan if you want, but you cant go vegan to stop killing animals, because you are, even if your not eating them. That’s the reality of life, there isnt any getting around it.

This is a strawman and has no place in a discussion.

Because i’m an equal opportunist, i think this is also probably a bit of a strawman, and a road that should be avoided as i dont think it likely would provide good discussion based in reality.

The argument if one can be had i think probably more lies in the fact that plants are alive regardless of nervous system. One ‘side’ thinks that’s the line between it being OK to kill for food and the other doesn’t.

Its worth keeping in mind that people here who eat meat aren’t calling for making everyone eat meat, in fact most here believe in a varied diet. I may be one of the few here who eat more meat than most.

Your (@Dan-01) view that we should all eat plants just doesn’t sit in reality. Many people simply cannot eat plants or are so restricted that they would never survive on what they could eat if all they had were plants. There’s a reason many many plant foods are labelled as allergens, a lot of them are simply inedible to humans.

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(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #83

It’s not difficult for me. I don’t feel the need to respect anyone’s views. I’ll respect the reasoning informing those views, if appropriate. So I wouldn’t respect the views of a murderer, but I’d respect the views of an omnivore, a vegetarian, a vegan because I can see a reasoned process for coming to those views.

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(James Blackwell) #84

I dot eat meat everyday but will never be meatless.
The large scale farming of crops/veg is also very damaging. Just look at palm oil as an example.