Islamic Banking šŸ•Œ

Actually that is something that I want to do, if I had the time and knew how to proceed.
Can you share any details if you find them?

@Nizar Are there organisations youā€™d recommend chatting to about this? Iā€™d love if we could ensure we offer a sharia compliant account

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Thanks for the showing interest in offering this @tristan

I would recommend getting in touch with Muslim Council of Britain for all the relevant information on this.
Find the contact details on their website below;

http://www.mcb.org.uk/contact/

I am also really interested in exploring what I can do and willing to help in any way possible to find a FinTech solution for Sharia-compliant banking.

Perfect, thanks! If anyone has contacts there, thatā€™d be great :slight_smile: If not, Iā€™ll drop them a message

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Personally, donā€™t have any direct contacts but they are easy to approach and if you would need any help I can definitely find someone to speak to.

They are on twitter @MuslimCouncil

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That is the biggest load of rubbish Iā€™ve ever heard.

If you cannot pay your dues, there absolutely ought to be a penalty charge, and if you canā€™t pay back the agreed amount if you borrow - you should most certainly construe interest.

The islamic banking mortages in such a case would simply be hiding the interest when they purchase the house for you. (which there is no way of escaping). Banks operate on interest. Why do you think they wouldnā€™t sell you the house for the exact sum you bought it for then?

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I think this answers your question:

https://central-mosque.com/index.php/General-Fiqh/legal-status-of-late-penalty-payments-in-islam.html

According to Shariah, if a client is defaulting in payment due to poverty, then he must be given respite until he is in a position to pay. And to forgive him altogether is very virtuous.

Allah Most High says:

If the debtor is in a difficulty, grant him time till it is easy for him to repay. But if ye remit it by way of charity, that is best for you, if ye only knew (Surah al-Baqarah, 280).

However, if the debtor is defaulting without any valid excuse (as is the general case), then the solution is not in charging him an extra amount as a penalty, as this will constitute Riba.

Imam al-Bayhaqi (Allah have mercy on him) reports the interpretation of Riba by the Companion Fudhala ibn Ubaid (Allah be pleased with him) in the following words:

Any lending arrangement which derives benefit is riba (Sunan al-Bayhaqi)

In light of the above and what the Fuqaha mention in their respective works, the majority of the contemporary scholars are of the view that to charge any amount on late payment will be regarded as Riba, thus unlawful (haram).

In the days of ignorance (jahiliyyah), people used to charge additional amounts from their debtors when they were not able to pay at the due date. They used to say:

Either you pay off the debt or you increase the payable amount

This was conclusively prohibited by the relevant verses of the Quran.

However, if this (charge) was a fixed payment in a way that at the time of making the agreement the client was given a choice between two prices, and he accepted one of them, then this will be permissible and not fall within the definition of Riba.

For example, a trader said to the client: If you pay me after one month, the price is five pounds, and if you pay after two months, it will be ten pounds. Now, if he chose one of the two options and the agreement took place on it, e.g. he said: I take the option of paying you ten pounds after two months, this will not be classed as Riba.

If, however, the contract was not finalized by deciding on one of the two options, e.g. the client said: I will see whether I can pay you in one or two months, (and as a consequence, five or ten pounds) then this will fall into the definition of Riba, thus Haram.

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Another interesting article about this:

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Thaank you for your interest @tristan
Technically the Monzo current account is Sharia compliant as it does not offer interest and overdraft is optional :slight_smile:

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I think I found it :slight_smile:

https://www.yielders.co.uk/

Yielders, a firm that allows retail investors to get exposure to the property market with as little as 100 pounds,

No, that wasnā€™t it. They specifically were a bank.

I went to a Yielders event/seminar very recently.
There was nothing very FinTech about them. I donā€™t know what constitutes FinTech but essentially they use the internet (and have a dedicated app) to crowd source investment. Is that all it takes?

The Halal element of the model is youā€™re investing directly in property. They set up a Ltd company vehicle for investors as shareholders and the Ltd Co owns the property. You benefit from the rent and eventual resale value.

Anticipated yields are clear upfront, net of fees and costs.

I believe thereā€™s only one well known retail bank in UK and thatā€™s Al Rayan Bank (formerly Islamic Bank of Britain).
They have an iOS app but itā€™s not great. Effectively a portal to their website but it does the job with same functionality as website.

Another place to start would be UK Islamic Finance Council

As a consumer Iā€™d be looking for a bank that provides just as good service and security as any other conventional bank. In terms of products, a Current Account, a savings account, ability to invest (incl Pension)& borrow that meets Halal criteria.

Currently I have a few products (CA, savings & HPP) with Al Rayan and thankfully my employer has a defined contribution pension plan that has a shariah compliant option (I think HSBC Amanah funds). I invest with Hargreaves Lansdown and they have a number of Shariah compliant funds on there.

So in summary weā€™re quite well catered for but just not all in one place and not always cutting edge so thereā€™s room for competition.

As mentioned earlier, in your current form, I believe your products are good for Muslims, otherwise i probably wouldnā€™t be here :grinning:

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From my (limited) understanding I feel like Monzoā€™s overdraft would be compatible with Islamic banking - you agree to pay a certain price to get X overdraft for Y days.

Actually itā€™s the whole concept of Overdraft that is not allowed in islam, because it is about borrowing money with interest.

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As an atheist I find it totally bizarre that you or anyone would let religion (any) run your life to this much detail. But of course each to their own. Can Islamic banking adapt or change to better practices or techniques that may come along in the future? Or is it forever written in stone?

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It is not about being an atheist or a muslim.
What if the title was Ethical Banking instead of Islamic Banking, and the Islamic word was not mentioned?
Because thatā€™s what itā€™s about for me, itā€™s about being fair to fellow man and itā€™s against greed and taking advantage of people for personal gain.

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A couple of interesting reads:

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Good job you donā€™t know the rest of the detail :rofl: