iOS 17

Ah finally this is what I was expecting it to do.

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It’s actually pretty good! A little random with what it chooses but I’m sure it’ll get better with time.

Also makes me realise how much of what I do my phone tracks :eyes:

Please don’t make me install this :upside_down_face:

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Beta Thursday??? Bit odd but okay

iOS 17.2 hints at sideloading apps from outside the App Store (

Only in the EU, I wouldn’t expect it in the UK, even.

Edit: And my feelings are that this is bad, I buy iOS devices partly because of the walled garden approach, but EU bureaucrats being EU bureaucrats :woman_shrugging:


I have never got this argument, you can stay in the walled garden and those who want to venture out can, it’s a win-win for everyone. You are going to see the news I got tricked into downloading app but it won’t affect you in anyway.

The identical argument for USB-C. Me personally I would consider an iPhone if sideloading works and 90hz + comes to the regular whenever that maybe having been android only for years.

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Except it isn’t. It’s a win-win for you because it means both platforms offer what you want. It won’t be what everyone wants, and certainly isn’t what most people need.

The win-win for everyone is having multiple system options and we can each choose the one which is best for us. When both of those are regulated into similarity, it erodes those options and that choice.

iOS users largely like iOS because of the way it was fundamentally designed. It’s a problem-free experience. Start opening up the system and that’s no longer the case. See: Android, which already serves your wants. Don’t be greedy. iOS serving yours too means it suits mine much less.

There’s a cycle to this that’s been going on for years and is fruitless too. It’s if iPhone did this I’d switch to it and then they do it, and people don’t switch, because there’s always going to be that one more if iPhone did this argument. Those folks need to accept the fact that the ecosystem isn’t for them, and their loud voices, particularly now regulators are listening, is only harming the platform for those who love it the way it is.

I think it’s telling that you’re an Android user currently and you’re the one who wants iOS to do this stuff. But @ndrw and myself, who are long time iOS users really don’t.



I used to like Android but then the simplicity of iOS and lack of “it’s open source do what you want lolz” mentality meant I soon switched.

If people want the ability to side load apps, have manufacturer skins etc fine. But the main and explicit reason I went with iOS is I just wanted a phone that worked, consistently.

The moment they start opening that up is where that experience might change, and get worse I think.

Personally I hope they don’t do this, or if they have to, allow users the option to disable this from the start.

In all the years of iOS it has consistently just worked, whereas when I’ve had Android work phones before BYOD the experience has been very up and down with things such as Bluetooth compatibility, camera quality.

Now if folks want all of that customisation fine, but just let them go and buy an Android!


But how for you? Even if it was opened up for you nothing would change. Apps from app store only. By opening up the store how would it cause you to lose the problem free experience. I can’t see any negatives.

They do have to, at least in the EU. Unlike USB-C though I hope this is a change that will be restricted just to the EU.

That might help those who know what they’re doing but it’s easy to see how the “Xbank fraud team” could call someone telling them that because of the changes Apple made to their phone, their Xbank app is compromised so they’ll need to send a new, “safe” app to them.

Or a random browser redirect telling someone that their phone has 9999 viruses and they need to download this antivirus software.

Or just greed getting the better of companies and only offering their apps outside the AppStore leading to users having no choice but actively weakening the security of their devices.

The EU argues that this is to increase consumer choice. It’s the opposite. It’s only serves for them to power trip and regulate Apple (they don’t seem to take anywhere near as much interest in Microsoft, for instance). It removes consumer choice by forcing Apple to turn the iPhone into yet another Android. So people will have the choice of Apple-flavoured or green robot flavoured versions of the exact same thing.


Everything would change.

We need only take a look at Android for some examples. Threat actors will be more able to target iOS users to install malicious software. The sort of software that currently makes Android users of banks like Monzo and Starling far more easy to defraud than iOS users.

The apps only from App Store won’t be a choice I have control over. Because it’s a change that takes power away from users (though the EU thinks they’re taking it away from Apple) and places it firmly in the hands of the wild-west developers and hackers. It would be naive to assume to certain developers wouldn’t exploit that for their own gain. Which means apps disappearing from the App Store in favour of another distribution method. That sort of coercion exists on other platforms, and it’s dangerous training for most users.

It’s not the store that opens up. It’s the whole system. It undermines iOS’s famed security and integrity. It exposes me to threats I am currently safe from. The walled garden is the reason iOS is as secure as it is. And is why all users benefit from the security of the system as opposed to the educated few on Android who know how to protect themselves.

You can’t see the negatives because it’s something you want. Something you already have with Android systems out there and presumably like. The problems are highly prevalent and very visible on that platform. They perhaps just don’t affect you.

  • Increased security risks
  • People having bad experiences with devices due to non-standard app designs
  • Development time wasted on interoperability instead of new features

The list goes on…

I was always team Android. Using Nexus, OnePlus and eventually Pixel devices before finally switching to Apple 2 years ago, and never looked back.

I don’t want the Android experience to chase after me now I’ve moved on. I want my choice to be honoured, otherwise it’s not actually a choice, simply the illusion of choice.

Sure, I’d love it if Apple let me open location links from Apple Calendar in Google Maps. But I’m not that fussed about it that I’d agree to the EU diluting everything that makes the Apple ecosystem so great under a false banner of ‘fairness’ or whatever their ridiculous angle is.


It wouldn’t remain that way. If anything you just have to look at how Epic does business on PC. They pay apps to not put their games on steam, they would do the same on iOS.
Then we would get the Facebook App Store so Facebook could ignore the Apple App Store privacy restrictions.
Privacy is a big part of why I like iOS. I know android users won’t get it as it’s Google and they really REALLY don’t do privacy but the App Store restrictions really help on iOS.


I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the average user has no idea how iOS is designed. I’m guessing they like iPhones because they are abslutely brillinant hardware with long suport and the best selection of apps. Some (like me) may even choose iOS despite the fact that it’s so locked down.

I’m no doubt in the minority here, but I’m really looking forward to sideloading happening within the EU. Maybe it’ll be a “COMPLETE PRIVACY AND SECURITY NIGHTMARE!!! :skull:”, or maybe it won’t be much of a big deal at all :man_shrugging: . It’s not like being able to sideload suddenly changes the iOS App Sandbox.

There are already loads of scam apps on the App Store (which for all Apple’s rhetoric is policed pretty badly) and there’s always Safari to redirect people to wherever a scammer likes. It’s not like iOS is completely safe now and my friends and family have somehow managed to survive the dangerous wild west that apparently is Android.

Do you mean the same Google that Apple are happy to take $12B a year from to invade their users’ privacy?!

For all the legitimately great work that Apple does on privacy, I’m still waiting for it it put it’s (literal) money where its mouth is.

It’s funny how when it does clamp down on security/privacy protection (the App Store / ATT), it just happens to massivly benefit their bottom line.

It’s also arguable how much ATT even does help with tracking. Apple only defines tracking as being across third part apps (again, for their own benefit!), which doesn’t stop Facebook or Google from still tracking what you do across their own apps).

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We’re back to Beta Tuesdays

Me: Downloading before I go on holiday might be risky.

Also Me: Downloading in progress……


I’ve downloaded a beta update while on holiday, My phone was the only way I could get my boarding pass. Talking about risky

Ever since @N26throwaway mentioned monitoring on betas I decided not to go for them unless it’s a main version beta

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They’ve been fine for me this year except for the first few which is to be expected. Journal has been a really nice addition.