How banks deal with the clocks changing

While I agree with much of the sentiment, not everything that has been brought into the US version is going to be as attractive to the UK market and vice versa.

It does feel that Monzo has slowed down in terms of offering new opportunities and functionality. I’ve never been affected by the way Monzo handles transactions and the time of day but I appreciate others have. For me personally, fixing and improving support is more important.

Yeah. Support is the Achilles heel at the moment. Especially after the latest Built For Mars analysis highlighted the problems with Monzo’s chatbot in the latest research.

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It’s sort of fixed now. At least there’s a work around.

Changes to your arranged overdraft
From today, we won’t charge you any interest if you go over your arranged overdraft limit. If you turn off your arranged overdraft, we won’t charge you any interest if your balance goes below £0 either.

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How does that change fix it? :thinking:

Just had a read of the updated agreement. The email doesn’t mention it, but they’ve amended it to reference UTC now.

Weʼll calculate any interest based on the amount you’re overdrawn by at midnight UTC each day, and charge your account on the first day of each month. You can check how much you owe at the top of your Monzo feed.

The old wording for reference:

Weʼll calculate any interest based on the amount you’re overdrawn by at midnight each day, and charge your account on the first day of each month.

So that does fix it, from a regulatory standpoint. Was one of the solutions I asked the regulator for. It’s the lazy get of jail free card solution, but a solution nonetheless. Just hope the in app comms also reference that it’s UTC when you go overdrawn, instead of the generic midnight.

But at least they’ve done something, so good one, Monzo!

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Yes, it’s remarkable how quickly a business can go from ‘all our terms and conditions are really clear and legible’ to ‘there’s tiny little traps in our ts and cs and it’s your fault if you don’t go through them with a tooth-comb’. Everyone will assume 12pm means 12pm BST in the summer - the time every clock in the country is set to.

So yeah, I agree, shitty and customer unfriendly solution but it’s where we are apparently. Slightly better than not telling people at all and still trying to charge them I guess!

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I don’t think it does. Arguably, Monzo have just made it worse if anything.

As you say, the email doesn’t mention it and the summary document actually shows that they are removing the following from their Current Account T&C.

We’ll calculate any interest based on how much you’re overdrawn by midnight Universal Time Coordinated (UTC) each day, and charge your account on the first day of each month.

True, the separate overdraft/credit agreement now does say:

Weʼll calculate any interest based on the amount you’re overdrawn by at midnight UTC each day, and charge your account on the first day of each month. You can check how much you owe at the top of your Monzo feed.

But I can’t see where they now define UTC anywhere.

Even if it does, you might understand what “at midnight UTC each day” means but I bet most of the population don’t.

Most have probably never come across UTC at all and as @breville_monkey says

IANAL, but as such, I think the T&C fail on various grounds such as treating customers fairly and the newer Consumer Duty standard

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Maybe. If someone wishes to carry on the fight, I’ll back them completely .

But for me personally, I’ve gone as far as I’m willing. The real solution to this problem is to, of course, respect the clock change, but as time goes by, I’m increasingly doubtful it’s one the U.K. team wants to implement. Particularly when the bank has already designed, built, and deployed that solution for another market.

The ombudsman’s uphelp my complaint, compensated me fairly, and suggested taking my broader complaint about the clocks to the FCA, and I’ve done that. A solution has now been implemented which directly addresses the complaint I took to them.

It might not be the one we hoped for, but it does address it all the same. Whether or not it’s enough to appease their consumer duty requirements is for someone else to challenge. If this change happened as a result of my FCA complaint (and we’ll never know the answer to that), one might assume they’d be certain it fulfils their requirement this time, is the previous wording did indeed fall short.

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What did the previous wording say? I know it’s here somewhere but I’m too lazy to find it. Does the UTC wording work because it now won’t fall before midnight?

A few posts up:

The addition of UTC is sufficient for me to know that it won’t be midnight in the summer.

It’ll mean I’d have at least known this was a thing prior to it happening to me, and I think knowing that up front, I’d have taken greater care. Whether it would have actually prevented me falling for the trap, or if it’s a sufficient explanation for others or to meet their consumer duty requirements, I don’t know.

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So the change is that they clarify that it is charged based on UTC and doesn’t actually change anything materially? While it’s a clarification and it is welcome it is still sneaky and underhand and could catch people out while Monzo can just wash their hands. I would have expected more from the Monzo I used to like.

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Nobody is going to be charged. So it doesn’t matter either way anymore.

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Pretty much. It’s the bare minimum solution required to meet their regulatory requirements so if it happens to you, you don’t have a simple case to run to the ombudsman with, but one they could fight and realistically defend against.

I recall Monzo, in their response to the ombudsman, committing to put it right if I got charged overdrafts fees because of UTC again. I wonder if they’d still do that in light of the updated agreement.

Is that not just unauthorised use of an overdraft? Any authorised use is still charged so is it not possible still to be charged for 1 hour being in an overdraft unintentionally?

On that note… how can it be that I’m charged if I stay within the agreed rules but not charged if I break the agreed rules?

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It’s changed in the update yesterday

Changes to unarranged overdrafts
From today, if we haven’t agreed an arranged overdraft limit with you, we won’t charge you any interest if your balance goes below £0.

We try to reject any payments or cash withdrawals that’ll take your balance below £0. The only exceptions are ‘offline’ payments, like those you make on a plane. We can’t reject those payments, so if they put you into an unarranged overdraft, we’ll tell you as soon as it happens.

If you do become overdrawn and don’t have an arranged overdraft, you should repay the money as soon as you can, as it could impact your credit score.

Yeah that’s just unauthorized overdrafts surely. You’ll still get put into your arranged overdraft and charged interest accordingly.

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So unless I’m reading wrong if I have £10 in my account and £20 charge is allowed through I am -£10. If I have agreed an overdraft I get charged. If I haven’t then I don’t get charged.

Seems a little unfair, no?

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Is there a free buffer if you have an arranged overdraft?

Otherwise like you say, it does seem a little unfair.

Not that I’m aware of.

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A touch, but then I guess you haven’t explicitly agreed an interest rate in the same way and anyway these situations should be very rare and the amounts usually small and not accrued intentionally.

And it could still wreck your credit affordability if you stay in an unauthorised overdraft. So it’s not a very advantageous position anyway.

Long term sure, but let’s say a day overdrawn by £10 isn’t going to go on your file (or unlikely).

With my overdraft I’d be charged. Nominal as it may be. Without I wouldn’t.

Seems like a small, £25 interest free buffer for arranged overdrafts would be pretty simple fix for this.

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