But Emma is still using Facebook’s products (AccountKit and analytics) as part of the app and shares device & usage information with them, which would be fine with a respectable & trusted company with a real product, but not using the data from these services for stalking & advertising purposes goes right against Facebook’s perverse business model, and they’ve been outed multiple times with violating user’s trust, so why should we trust them now?
It’s like asking an alcoholic to guard a warehouse full of booze the whole night - you might find some empty bottles the next morning, because that person has a strong incentive (in fact, a dependence) to drink those bottles. Now replace “alcohol” with “personal data” and you see what I mean, except it’s even worse because at least you can tell that a bottle was emptied, but data can be copied & used silently in such a way that you don’t notice it happened and that the perpetrator has plausible deniability as to where they got the data from.
I won’t be using Emma but I think it is a shame because I would love to give it a go.
Generally I am not too paranoid about bing tracked (I use Google stuff after all) BUT Facebook and my personal finances is not a combination that I want to get into. Particularly given Facebook’s recent record.
Again I am not criticising anyone that chooses to do so but I thought it was worth giving some feedback since the Emma folks seem to read this thread.
Facebook and my personal finances is not a combination
Emma doesn’t share financial information with Facebook, it’s purely which device you’re using/when you’re using it, which network, timezone, phone number and what other apps you have installed on your device. If financial data is the only thing you’re concerned about then there’s nothing to worry about.
Are you sure they get this info? I didn’t think Emma would be able to get a list of apps installed on your phone, so how could this be passed on to Facebook?
Well it’s comforting to know that they are kept at a distance from my financial data But BUT BUT why would I want to let them know what my phone number is, and when I am using my device (not to mention what other apps I have installed on my device).
I presume Apple has this info (or can get it) but I take that as the price I pay for using Apple’s services and devices. Why should I let Facebook (a company I dont use or particularly trust) have this level of info on me particularly as I have no intention of using their services.
Anyway - it’s all academic: as I said earlier I won’t be going near any signup that involves anything provided by Facebook.
They can’t know what other apps you have installed on your device.
We just use a software (Facebook Account Kit) to verify a phone number, that’s it. We have plans to swap to another software, but simply because we don’t like the fact that the interface is not fully integrated in the experience. At the same time, we are using Facebook Analytics, another tool to monitor the app performance, and even in this case, we are switching to Amplitude, because we don’t like the insights the former provides. Other than that, Facebook is completely fine and secure. They have the best engineers in the world, after all.
I also don’t understand why you think I would jeopardise my life by using something that “harms” other people. This is just non sense filled by several false claims made on a public domain.
We are a team of super focused and strong engineers, which are working pretty much 24/7. I think anyone has the right to ask and we are always available, both here, on twitter and from our live chat; so if you have any questions, please ping us.
Are you sure they get this info? I didn’t think Emma would be able to get a list of apps installed on your phone, so how could this be passed on to Facebook?
Other apps have to cooperate for this but I think the analytics SDK can figure out which other apps you have that also use the same SDK.
We just use a software (Facebook Account Kit) to verify a phone number, that’s it
And the software saves it in the background and most likely (because it’s their business model) combines it with whatever other info Facebook has on you, like your “shadow profile”, so even if you’re not a Facebook user, just by using Emma you could be helping FB complete that shadow profile.
Facebook is completely fine and secure.
I don’t think anyone is doubting the security of the data. The problem is what they’re doing with that data once it’s in their hands - I would not trust such a company not to silently use it to build a shadow profile of me or use it in some other nefarious way that doesn’t benefit me (training neural networks to somehow serve more ads - because why work on solving real problems when you can waste everyone’s time with ads?).
They have the best engineers in the world, after all.
[citation needed]
I can think of several companies that solve real problems and have great products, and I’d argue those have the best engineers. What real problem does Facebook solve, other than the lack of ads in their user’s lives, which is only a problem for Facebook and not the actual user?
If you’re wearing a tinfoil hat then you’re probably not going to want to use Emma because of the connection to Facebook & that’s fine. I don’t think most users are going to worry about that.
The comment about Facebook engineers is pretty pedantic in my opinion, I expect you understand that GAFA attract the best talent because they have a huge impact on the world, pay the best salaries etc. Whether you believe that, that talent is being put to good use is irrelevant here.
TL;DR - I’m not sure what you were hoping to achieve with that last comment?
The Facebook SDK is used by pretty much any company that does Facebook Advertising. It tracks the app installs so companies can buy real downloads rather than clicks on ads. We don’t use it, since we don’t run any ads.
I’d argue there is a high chance you use Facebook tools every single day without knowing. However, we are probably switching to Nexmo and Amplitude to do the jobs we currently do with Facebook software. It’s going to take a bit, but we’ll make the transition to have better insights and a much smoother user experience.
I’m not sure what you were hoping to achieve with that last comment?
My point was that it’s not the engineers themselves but what the company & management tells them to do. You can have the best engineers in the world and yet achieve nothing because management tells you to focus on the wrong problems.
pretty much any company that does Facebook Advertising
And thankfully most (all?) companies I deal with do not do this.
I’d argue there is a high chance you use Facebook tools every single day without knowing
I’m sure there are some that slip through the cracks, and some I have no choice to use because there’s no other decent alternative. This doesn’t mean however that I should be adding to that pile. It’s like saying it’s going to be good to smoke a pack a day just because you already smoke one cigarette a day.
we are probably switching to Nexmo and Amplitude to do the jobs we currently do with Facebook software
Glad to hear that, please keep us updated! Just curious why do you need Nexmo (nothing against them in particular - they’re awesome), wouldn’t email-based magic link authentication (a la Monzo) be better and slightly more secure, and not require an SMS provider?
I think finances are a private thing, but if we can find a way to share something with your friends / network, that will be a cool thing. We have some plans and phone numbers can help us in doing that. At this point, we have a 99% conversion flow on the phone authentication, so it’s not really a problem.
The magic link way is still on the table, but we have to logout every existing user, so not sure if it’s worth it.
We have also recently found ourselves in a position where we can start spending and hiring, so please apply if you are interested. We are looking for outsiders.
