Emma Feedback Thread / Q&A

With regards to GDPR, I think that as @edo1493 mentioned, a disclaimer like “We use analytics to improve your experience” would probably be compliant.

My issue isn’t about the analytics, it’s who provides the analytics, and whether the analytics provider also uses the data for their own gain (I’d be fine with a stand-alone analytics provider who makes their money on developers paying them in exchange for the data collected in their own apps, but much less fine with a company who’s main objective is to get as much data as possible about everyone, and providing developers the analytics simply as a decoy).

In fact, I actually still trust Emma with regards to my financial data. I just do not wish to have Facebook being invited to look over my shoulder every time I interact with their app, even if they don’t get access to the financial data directly. The usage metadata alone can tell them enough, especially if they can correlate it with other apps that happen to use Facebook Analytics, not to mention their like buttons everywhere.

My real hope is to be able to tell Facebook to not track me everywhere around the web when I’m not one of their users. I deleted my account, I am no longer taking advantage nor getting value out of their service, I wish they would respect my choice and do the same by not taking advantage nor getting value of my data.

Edit: @alexs would it be possible to move the privacy-related discussion to another thread, as to not pollute this one any longer?

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Hi @j06 my responses are defensive and snarky simply because I don’t think this is an argument. This is an exchange between two developers who argue about what tool to use to do X. I like to use Y, while Andre wants to use Z.

It’s like I am dressing a pair of red trousers and you have blue ones. The only reason why we are not friends is because you don’t like red trousers.

All our systems have been reviewed and approved by the FCA. The change you mentioned about T&Cs can’t and will never happen, otherwise I am the first to go down - it’s illegal.

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I’m pretty sure that post GDPR Facebook can’t harvest your data just because they’re providing analytics software for companies to use to process it with, as a ‘4th party’?

If you have any sources to share that show I’m mistaken, I’ll move this discussion to a new thread, as you’ve requested.

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Totally agree with that you said regarding financial data and FCA compliance, but I’m not sure the analogy is correct.

It’s like I am dressing a pair of red trousers and you have blue ones. The only reason why we are not friends is because you don’t like red trousers.

It would be more like wearing one pair of plain trousers, and a second one outfitted with cameras that stalk everyone you pass by and report to an omniscient Big Brother.

I am not criticizing your product because it uses analytics provider X vs Y, I am criticizing it because it uses spyware disguised as an analytics provider. I have no issues with you getting the analytics data, I have an issue with that data being shared with Facebook who will no doubt correlate it with data they’re getting from other sources.

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Oh dear. Still defensive and snarky, and now patronising and indecipherable (the trousers, I have no idea…)

Do you even want my custom?

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@j06 I was just trying to talk in a non techie way. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I’m pretty sure that post GDPR Facebook can’t harvest your data just because they’re providing analytics software for companies to use to process it with?

Would you really trust them, given they have a history of being on the grey area of the law and were even recently ordered by a Belgian court to delete illegally acquired data?

I would bet good money there will be a “bug” somewhere that makes the data from the analytics service “leak” into the main Facebook ad targeting database. The other issue is to prove there is such bug, which would be impossible unless the GDPR forces them to turn over all their code and databases for independent audit, which as far as I know is not part of the regulation.

The other issue is that even if caught I really doubt they will actually get the huge fines promised - a company like Facebook could probably lobby and lawyer their way out of pretty much anything.

Edit: let’s continue this in another thread?

Ok now we’re getting into tinfoil hat territory :wink: happy to leave this here.

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Talk in a non-techie way, please. But talk to me like a 40 year old, financially competent adult. Who you’d love to have as a customer. You know, like Monzo does.

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Just FYI, I opened up the Monzo APK, and it includes the Facebook SDK. I don’t know what they use it for, but I can’t imagine they’d put it in the app if it isn’t used.

Okay. :slight_smile:

We use Facebook Account Kit to verify your number and Facebook Analytics to track the performance of the app. The first one is useful for knowing who you are, while the second is handy to know how the app is performing, such as the time spent within the app, how many times people come back or what operating system they use (iOS/Android).

These are two tools adopted by thousands of other apps, which you have probably used directly or indirectly with others.

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This is hilarious.

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I know at the very least they have (had?) a way to import a profile image from Facebook, if that’s its only uses I’m okay with it. I’m happy for Facebook to be an option, as long as it stays just that, an option.

I feel this is bit biased and hypocritical of you. (Sorry for the harsh words), You’re willing to trust one App (Monzo) being shipped with Facebook SDK and willing to believe it’s only there as an option for Facebook profile photo or something like that… But other App (Emma) is not trustworthy just because someone ‘suspects’ (without any proof or reference) that Facebook could steal personal data.
Just to be clear I acknowledge that you said banking data is safe so we are talking about just the personal data/anonymised personal data.

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These types of conversations/debates seem to be happening all over the internet on different forums.

If people are genuinely worried about something (how an App uses Facebook for example), they need to read and understand exactly how it’s being used - From there they can make an informed decision whether they want to use the App.

I think it’s great when the developer contributes to the discussion as much as Eduardo has here - Yes of course, he has an App to promote, but answering questions honestly is also great customer service.

The biggest (and possible only) “issue” I’ve seen in this thread, is how Emma uses Facebook - AKA, the Anti Christ of the modern age.

If you have any doubt about Facebook at all, don’t use it. But then you might also want to research into other Apps you use, and delete quite a few of them who have a Facebook connection in some way - As we have just seen…. Monzo has one.

If you are concerned with companies “getting a profile” of you, stay off Google, Facebook, Amazon and throw away your smart phone (I’d recommend the Nokia 3210 as a great replacement with a battery that lasts for 10 years…… Not to mention the worlds best game…. Snake!)

To finally bring this back around to EMMA - I have tried the App, and I added all of my accounts. Yet I still find myself going back to each individual first party app and checking things.

This is more of a habit on my part, than a criticism of Emma. If I was 100% confident that every single transaction ever, would be categorised correctly, I’d be happier. Emma does a great job with this, and it has improved no end in the past month - But I’m not quite ready to have blind faith just yet!

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I’ve been using Emma for a few weeks now and I do like it.

Luckily for me I am able to connect all of my accounts and see things in one single view (as I do vary between cards occasionally).

The spending section of the app works pretty well, I like how if someone pays you back you can assign it a category and that payment will be deducted from your total spend.

Things I’d like to see improved:

  • Transaction data (a lot of it is missing and/or incorrect)
  • The ability to change a series of transactions category in one click (e.g. move all “Tesco” transactions to “Groceries” (Yolt does this).
  • More categories (such as drinks / nights out)
  • Pending transactions, most banking apps now allow you to view your pending transactions so I would like to see these being fed through to Emma as well.

There’s a few other bits and pieces that I’m sure will improve over time as we are in beta but so far it’s a nice app which I’m a fan of and will continue to use to see how it grows.

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I think it’s great when the developer contributes to the discussion as much as Eduardo has here - Yes of course, he has an App to promote, but answering questions honestly is also great customer service.

:+1:

The biggest (and possible only) “issue” I’ve seen in this thread, is how Emma uses Facebook - AKA, the Anti Christ of the modern age.

One of the issues I found is that the app forces me to give out my phone number to Facebook, which is then associated with the analytics token; so we’ve switched from purely anonymized usage analytics to Facebook knowing my phone number (which is no doubt linked to my “shadow profile” or whatever they call it, thanks to my friends sharing their entire contacts list with Fb), and linking that with the analytics data which included my location, time zone, carrier, and a bunch of info which put together is a pretty unique fingerprint of my device.

To finally bring this back around to EMMA - I have tried the App, and I added all of my accounts. Yet I still find myself going back to each individual first party app and checking things.

Emma seems like a cool product if you’ve got multiple accounts and somehow can’t manage them all, but personally I wonder if the better long-term solution is to simplify your accounts instead of trying to work around the management nightmare with yet another tool? I also doubt the 600£/year savings claim - for legacy banks maybe, but modern banks already do an excellent job of keeping you up to date on your finances and helping you stay out of late payment fees, forgotten subscriptions, etc.

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I’ve come to the sad conclusion, that if you like to try new technology, you are going to inevitably be on the radar of any savvy tech company - It’s why there are no nice comfy iOS apps for Tor, or really smooth super encrypted email apps (Proton does a good job, but it’s not integrated with the rest of iOS).

I would rather test the new tech, than remove myself from the web (which is what you would have to do to avoid those companies!)

As for the App - I really don’t see the £600 saving. I actually don’t see any “saving” at all - Apart from time (assuming you trust what you are seeing 100%, and don’t go back to the first party apps anyway).

I like the idea of all of my accounts being in the same place - Even if you “simplified” your account portfolio, you’re still likely to have:

  1. Credit Card
  2. Debit Card
  3. Amex?
  4. Savings

That’s assuming you only have 1 of each - Having it in 1 place is great.

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Thanks @harryru, we are working on multiple edits + learning + a bunch of other things. :stuck_out_tongue: We are always available via the live chat, so reach out anytime if you have any issues.

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I can vouch for the live chat

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