I’ve never personally timed it, but they’re as timely as they are on Monzo from my experience.
I suppose if you’re on fibre with very low latency, you’re probably loading up and progressing through the whole 3DS routing at lightning speed, so it finishes faster on the shop, way before the app is ready to notify and present the screen, but I’ll never be able to replicate that on FTTC or 4G.
Every time anyone mentions maintenance/outages you literally post they are better than most, so I naturally retort they are not.
Starling had an outage today it appears and put it on their app with card processing. I know your saying in the whole across legacy banks are not great but thats not a high bar and they failed hard less then 6 months ago.
I mean people hold grudges against a bad restaurant for longer then people here want to hold an bank.
Never had it, so it may be your internet or signal?
I mean if their status page doesnt report it then it must be made up or not happening as people seem to think the issues I have with chase are not anything wrong with chase because THEY dont have them.
I cant actually find the posts about that but if thats the case then yes monzo should take a lot of flak and sort out their service monitoring to report that, I am happy to direct ire at how that was possibly handled as well, they should all be doing best in this regard.
I dont give points for doing it properly but they do lose points for doing it poorly.
Likewise I have had very very few issues with RBS but I dont doubt they dont have issues for some at times but I dont disbelieve the reports because I like the bank.
I missed it or didnt have the issue, do you know how many had the issue?
I would expect them to do that, they dont get a plus for that, they just dont lose a point for not doing it.
No doubt they saw reports come in over the customer services system which will have caused them to alert people which is good.
The fact no one has posted it because its a blip for a few minutes it does not mean it doesnt happen. I posted here and basically live blogged it in case anyone else was seeing similar because thats how it started with the big outage, people told me then my issue was only affecting me, then it spread rapidly.
The issue occurred though even if you dont believe me although the source will never be known.
I mean Carl has issues with push notifications all the time and the delays but naturally the blips are only just me…
I have never had an issue with the banks I use but I do primarily use monzo but my other banks post maintenance on occasion and avoid legacy so I just chase against modern banks more than legacy banks.
Like you said, the baseline matters but with banks I guess if it directly affected me as it did with chase before I will call out until their baseline hits a decent level of service (subjective)
I had all the same criticism for starling back in the day, when GPS was at its worst starling were having maintenance the whole time and I was attacked with similar gusto from starling fans for saying its not good enough even though starling reported it.
We had looked at starling for a business bank then and we ruled them out for one of our accounts because the maintenance and reliability was too spotty, they did get their in the end though and now (other than today it appears lol) have few issues far between.
I mean it happens on them all, nearly all the time, I am getting use to knowing I will have to wait when I see the 3ds prompt on the site. I notice the difference because, for me, monzo (and I think starling but its been a while) were so far, I get the push within a few seconds from monzo, drag down the notification → approve for it to launch and faceid me. I think I can nearly do the whole monzo flow before I actually get the app to show it on Chase. Chase is faster than RBS if I recall but I have not put that to the test in a while.
I am an iPhone 13 Pro on the latest stable (so 16.4) on my DD.
On a side note, I love how I can trigger the approve with the notification on monzo but I also actually like how chase takes over the app where as the last time I didnt use the notification approve on monzo I had to manually tap the item in the feed to approve.
I would like monzo to trigger the approval flow without the tap like chase.
I hope they are, I hope too my blips and issues I see that are not reported are actually nothing to do with chase but I wont take it on faith until their baseline has improved over a much longer tail for myself. Lets see how the next 6 months go or the next referral program to be honest, but I do hope they are better. I just dont have lots of issues with others so thats maybe why its not reported as much, because they are not having blips the whole time
Yeah legacy banks can and do have bad outages, just like chase. I mean people still mention the TSB meltdown and that was not recent.
I can find mention of a Nationwide outage March last year? I mean if thats was your referencing like I said above, the baseline for banks is a long stretch to show things are improved if thats being mentioned over a year later.
If I used them I would have been on their mentioning it
I was unaware of the monzo me outage mentioned above and its lack of notice, that needs (and probably got) a lot of comments about how that was handled.
I want banks to actually do post mortems when they have outages, that in my mind would be transparent. I have a funny feeling monzo have done blog posts about outages in the past.
Also I would like a running tab of a year of outage history rather than what appears to be 3 months. Starling used to have long tail of history so people could transparently audit reported maintenance and outages but last time I checked the history is much much shorter and I wouldnt be surprised if that was because of the large tail of outages looking bad.
Chase certainly wont think its bad their meltdown last year has dropped off.
These are banks, outages etc should be reported for at least a year historically, Monzo actually lets me go back a lot further than that as well, transparently even if their are reports of outages not being reflected.
At times yes a lot wouldnt notice, but Tuesday in the easter holidays when large swathes go to other timezones then I do think it was pretty important. I wont be abroad when it hits but if it was wednesday instead it would affect me in a different timezone and without the notice I could be left in a mess dealing with it.
I think fintechs are all very good about maintenance downtime generally with notices, I recall monzo having a lot of warnings when they were moving payment provider in house, I just dont think it happens as often with fintechs. I did spot Curve had a maintenance window advertised last week if I recall ahead of time as well.
Even RBS generally has had notices for me such as the BST time change well ahead of time, they dont do a push notification mind you but then again I am not sure if chase does every time as well.
I need to time it but its sometimes I get a 3ds prompt and others I dont, I think if I mess with tesco adding booze I should be able to force a prompt on demand. 30 seconds has occurred before and longer but the longer than 30 seconds is certainly an outlier and the site was dealing with a lot of orders (a shop store based site) but the 3ds delay meant I missed my order and didnt get it through in time.
I need to try with RBS to see how long it takes for time but a lot of RBS stuff I use has saved details and dont prompt 3ds again.
Monzo is very very fast, the push is split seconds behind but as I said above I pull down the notification on iOS and hit approve which skips some of the flow, its all done in < 10 seconds anyway.
I mean I wish I knew why it was that much slower, it cost me a purchase which means I wont use it for time sensitive things but as long as it is for me I will report it, maybe some day it will get sorted, hell you know how hard things can be to figure out with your monzo crash that was crazy when you got your 14, it doesnt have to make sense why its happening but its certainly happening for me.
My fast internet (not crazy crazy low latency to be honest, I live remote and light only travels so fast) just eliminates one avenue and its annoying no one else gets the slow/slower 3ds I get and I wish it was one retailer, to be honest the web site part appears usually as quick as I would expect and that means its in contact with chase.
I dont have as many problems with push notification delays as Carl but I have had them and I have actually (rare) had the 3ds push come in after its triggered the flow in app.
No pile on intended Your original post was lengthy and made a lot of points to respond to, N26 replied while I was typing mine.
This sort of angle is why it feels like this is criticism for criticism’s sake. First of all that’s quite a niche circumstance, what percentage of the customer base would likely be affected by that? It will undeniably be tiny, and if they have to not disrupt anyone in the UK and nobody in any other timezone, there would pretty much never be a time they could do anything, which just isn’t viable. Put yourself in Chase management’s shoes; you have to take services down for 5 hours, when do you choose to do that other than the early hours of a weekday? Won’t affect 99.9% of people during the day, or people on a night out as I don’t think Monday night is exactly a hot night for clubbing. It’s only really people abroad and people working nights, but any other time would be worse for significantly more people. So like I said I don’t know what else they can do.
What also confuses me about this take is that NatWest and RBS take their entire app offline from I think it’s around 1:00-2:30am, every day of the year. So next month I’ll be in the US at -6 hours compared to UK, so the app will be down for me from 19:00-20:30, every day. But that doesn’t seem to be an issue?
Sure, a lot of people might know it does that, but I only know about it because I’m always up late. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of their customers have no idea that happens, and would be a bit stuck when they go to the US and find out. Whereas Chase have given ample notice for people to make sure they’d be able to pay for something in that time.
tl;dr is that if a one-off period of downtime with like a week’s notice is unacceptable because it might impact people abroad, I’m not sure how NWG taking their apps offline daily without advanced warning which would impact people abroad daily, gets a pass.
But how do you know? Lack of a notice about it doesn’t necessarily correlate with lack of maintenance. And I don’t feel like they’ve even had a lot of these maintenance windows as it is.
I get that the outage last year has shaken your faith in them and you need to see a longer period of stability than perhaps others do to believe they’re improving. And things like deficiencies in the Android app are inexcusable in 2023. But I think complaining about infrequent planned maintenance with plenty of notice, which is more than likely only happening to provide the stability improvements you crave, is just finding something to complain about.
This is kinda covering the whole paragraph but I do agree normally a Tuesday morning a pretty large loss of service wouldnt be the hugest issue for the the huge majority.
I am referring to how people say chase over report maintenance, they should report all maintenance (and keep their status page history turned on for longer than 3 months for transparency…) and Tuesdays one has the scope to affect more people than normal with the easter holidays.
I know they wont want the maintenance if they can help it, its just unfortunate timing in the easter break, it will hit more people than if it had not been then although who knows how many, chase got decent deposits so they could be more likely to holiday given the average balance over others but we can consider it will affect more that if it was not during the holiday weeks.
LMAO, I had noticed it in the past when it was more my primary bank, and it annoyed me, but I have never hit it again because I think it was moved and supposedly its 2:00am - 2:40am and I have never hit it then. The thing is one of the reasons I dont use RBS as my main bank was because of that annoyance and lack of push at the time. I just know they did notify me about maintenance for things in app before the event occurs.
If I recall they actually do put a notice on the app during the daily app outage and just before but its been a while because I have less volume going through that needs me to pull the app up.
RBS taking down their app is an issue for me, it certainly means I wont go back to them for primary banking even though I dont mind the app too much, I just dont put through the volume to hit it nowadays. They dont get a pass for being an old school legacy bank with these types of issues.
God I even wondered about putting through some volume post chase to see what they are like but thats ruled out now.
If chase stop the bribe I too will not notice their blips and maintenance in the same way, hell when I go on the capped cash back I will only be using it up till the £15 then using monzo after that so their will be less volume to spot blips etc anyway.
I compare chase to fintechs primarily as thats what I use, my choice of primary bank is based against the primary bank I use and advantages over that.
Well the same could literally be said about chase, which is why I post when I have a blip to see if anyone has it but then I keep getting the odd blips with things. I mean when plenty say they are not having the issue it does raise the chase baseline in my head a little and engenders a little sliver more faith in them each time.
I dont post every blip, just ones that keep coming at the same time.
I dont doubt monzo dont have maintenance for example, I just suspect they have a pretty tight inhouse system to ensure it doesnt affect customers, they have done a lot of blogs about how outline of how it hangs together and how they avoid these problems but they are a pretty ground up built fintech where as chase runs on someone else’s stack if I recall?
I also do a lot of web development and we have very few maintenance windows and we are a small shop but if you do it right and pay AWS a lot you can avoid a lot of outages. I have rolled out DB changes and webserver changes all without outage.
I actually didnt comment until I saw bits hyperbole appear where its compared to creaky old legacy banks, I compare chase, and any new bank wanting my business, against the best in each category and while its not the worst I dont see it being good by not being as bad a legacy banks.
Also just to say, starling have opened up their fault history again, they did limit it a while ago when they were having a lot of incidents back to back as I went to reference the history and it was suddenly cut but looking now they seem to be as transparent as monzo with being able to view past incidents.
I wonder if chase will follow this transparency?
I want chase (and monzo to do more of) to do this:
That’s trying to be transparent, posting a status message is just the bare minimum I want from a modern bank personally. I would love Chase to do that for the big outage 6 months ago although I know its very very rare banks do that, American banks even more so, I just have a bank that has done that so that’s what I hope my next bank does, any other bank isnt simply as transparent.
Whenever someone questions if it mean they have more problems or do they just report more or if other banks just don’t do it I reply with an answer of my understanding. If I didn’t, someone else would, and you’d reply to them instead.
In the post you first replied to I made no judgement as to whether they are better. I offered clarity to the best of my understanding and stated a preference for reporting anything and everything.
You could have replied to them with your own answer that contradicts mine if you wanted, but that’s not what you did. Instead you opted to rebut my preference and rehash the same old same old. That’s why I didn’t reply at first, because I intended to ignore it to avoid a repeat. But then someone else did, and so it began again.
I actually think in terms of the community, they handled it well, and fixed it quickly after being reported.
But yeah, nothing on the status page, so as far as that’s concerned, it was never down.
I don’t personally know anyone who experienced it, but there was a banner in the app about notifications crashing the app, and it’s still on the status page incident history.
I’ll see if I can test this later on a 13 pro, those are still on 16.4 (dev profile but I’ll factory reset it with the public release build brand new just in case).
I’ll time it and try to screen record if I can. I think the new Pixelmator update lets you edit videos now so can blur out sensitive info.
Is this new?! I’ve been asking for this for ages. Was told it wasn’t possible, possibly due to lack of second authentication.
Game changing if so, because then I’ll be able to approve from the notification on my watch!
Oh, you mentioned them quite a few times as a comparison so I assumed you did.
What do you define as a “blip” though? A slow notification, 3ds prompt taking 30 seconds, balances refreshing after a couple of seconds? Or actual service outages, error messages, payment failures? My personal experience is that there’s either been a clear outage that’s affecting everyone (whether they’ve acknowledge it or not (i.e. it’s not just you)), or it’s been smooth sailing and everything’s worked.
True, but sometimes it is required, or easier to do so. I’m sure Chase aren’t taking services down because they have nothing better to do and just to screw with people. first direct had an in-app notice about some planned downtime at a similar time and I truly didn’t think anything of it any more than I did with this Chase one. Again maybe I’m just more accommodating of planned maintenance with plenty of notice.
That is good to be fair, but it’d be a stretch in my eyes for that to become the norm.
What I’ll do is take one for the team and try and use the Chase app and make a purchase online tonight during this maintenance window, to see how bad it ends up being or if it’s a lot of fuss over nothing. It does say it’ll only affect online payments if it requires security checks, and it doesn’t mention not being able to view card details any more, so I’ll see what happens and report back.
Alas no, you cant do it on your watch, just the notification on the phone, you pull down, if its at the top bar → approve (or long press on the front notifications screen) and it will launch the approval flow on the phone and ask for your pin or do a faceid and approve. The watch doesnt have the ability to do that part but I still find it really nice and efficient for the flow on the phone. It use to have a quirk though for business approvals if you had been in your personal account prior but I honestly dont know if that is fixed.
No they are just one of the few legacy accounts I have where I know I have seen maintenance windows recently but as I said, I dont use it for a huge amount of transactions and rarely get a 3ds to compare. I had seen the app maintenance window years ago but I was sure it was around midnight and I have never happened to run into it again as I dont use it often for transactions that would cause me to use the app. That and it doesnt exactly have a live feed of whats going on with the waiting to clear period so I just didnt realise they still had that.
I mean I have gotten all of that, I do get feed errors just launching the app on occasion but I restart of the app and it loads the next time.
Payment failures are rare at least but they have happened, Steam was the last I recall. I have seen instances where the chase 3ds 10 minute screen wont load but I suspected those times it could have been the retailer at fault. Usually when you get the chase screen chase is at least aware of the transaction.
This is an iOS device that is a DD so its never had a beta build on it as well so who knows. I honestly thought everyone saw the loading error from time to time on the feed so I never reported it here, maybe not though.
Oh I dont expect any legacy bank to do that as much as I want them too, I just have a bank that seems really transparent so anything less is simply less and not prone to much praise when compared with other banks going further although no bank is perfect.
I do think chase should change their history of incident limit to be at least a year for transparency, once they push past any stability issues it will only help them but when you hide it, it looks like you are hiding it when people know you had these issues but they will care more about new customers being put off than keeping existing customers I suspect.
Yeah it will be curious how things get handled, will you get an error on the site or will it just not arrive. They also may have a wide window to cover a lot of things and some bits come online sooner than others. I do like the warning to be aware but I have seen that elsewhere at least.
Seems it was fuss over nothing as I anticipated, 1:40am and the app is fine, and placed an order with the card having added it for the first time and it worked no problem. Only issue is the balance won’t update but the yellow in-app status message tells you that anyway. I think payments with a 3ds check will fail as that prompt won’t work, but I’ve almost never had those anywhere anyway. So nothing of note to see here. Unless, of course, it degrades deeper into the work, I’m not staying up that late to find out
Wait are you saying that the stuff they expected to break is/maybe broken but the bits they didn’t still work (none 3ds stuff)?
I mean at least the maintenance hasn’t burned down anything else I supposed like in person card/non 3ds which is good I guess.
No, I’m saying a lot of stuff they said would be broken is fine as of now. Original status update said “most” of the app wouldn’t work, wouldn’t be able to view card number. But as of 2:00 the app is fine and regular card payments work, so it’s just no 3ds and no transfers in or out, which is overall less than they originally said would be unavailable.
I think it’s probably been done to death at this point tho, we can move on from it now like the entire customer base will have done by the morning. Looking forward to the next advance notice of planned maintenance