Card payments may fail and bank transfers may fail or be delayed 23/04/2018 (Resolved)

I wonder whether it would be legal in that situation to knowingly spend the funds… :thinking: Most likely not, even though the error is on TSB’s part, but nevertheless I wonder that most people would do in such a scenario?

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There is two different status pages, one for Prepaid and one for Current account, you may have subscribed to the Prepaid.

Prepaid is here: https://mondo.statuspage.io
Current Account is here: https://monzo.statuspage.io

No, that would definitely be illegal.

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I am subscribed to the text notifications but this the first time there was no text message. There might be an issue with statuspage notifications via texts.

Can someone from Monzo please check? @HughWells

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I was signed up to the current account, as I tried to sign up again and it told me that my number was already subscribed.

Did anyone get an automatic SMS from statuspage.io for this incident?

Yep, can confirm no problems using my card during this outage, and faster payments worked for me too (transferred small sum to my backup account incase my card for declined).

Just received a FPS Inbound payment 10 minutes ago without any issues.

In fact I didn’t know there was an issue until I opened the app and saw the message. I have received notifications for things like this in the past (on pre-paid I think), do we not get notified anymore?

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Sounds like a right shambles, judging by the number of outstanding issues published on their website.

https://www.tsb.co.uk/help/service-message/#internet-banking

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I’m interested as to why, in a circumstance like this, the payments may fail. Surely if a remote system is unavailable, they should just be held/queued for later processing (so the message should be just ‘delayed’).

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Yes and No. There is conflicting case law. For most people with low balances receiving a large sum unexpectedly it would be illegal as Judges say you would reasonably be expected to notice such a change in balance, however there have been cases where the very wealthy received a large sum unexpectedly and as it made little impact on their balance a Judge ruled they could not be reasonably expected to notice it and ruled it not illegal, though the latter case would normally be overturned on appeal. There have also been cases where banks tried to obtain any interest paid out on an incorrect deposit back and ones where account holders sought to obtain payment for any interest that would have accrued before the incorrect deposit was reversed out of their account. So, with a good lawyer you may be able to get away with it, and there have been some settlements outside court where it was agreed to only take back part of the money, but normally you will have to pay it back and in full. Though if you have spent it they may resort to agreeing a repayment plan to recoup the loss in installments.

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Shouldn’t have any issues using the card, as the post states the outage was related to faster payments only.
This wouldn’t have been noticed unless you made a bank transfer and they were likely just queued up for a small period of time. The time limit for FPS is anything up to 2hrs anyway

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Jeez, those estimated fix dates! End of April and Coming Soon™.

It would be funny if it wasn’t people’s money!

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I think bombarding everyone with a notification about an outage which the majority of people wouldn’t even notice is a bit pointless. You can just open the app and see the message at the top.
I guess it depends on the scale and the likelihood of large amounts of people noticing. In this case I imagine most didn’t due to faster payments having a normally lead time of up to 2hrs and this outage was less than that so payments were just queued for a bit.

Worrying eveyone with little blips could easily get blown out of proportion and think there is a wider issue if they don’t read it correctly.

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I imagine this is what actually happened as FPS can take up to 2hrs but everyone expects than instantly… which is where the problem can be.

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Some FPS operations are synchronous where Monzo requires an immediate response from BACS like whether or not that particular account exists, etc. Those operations can’t easily be queued as the user needs immediate feedback whether the operation succeeded or not.

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That’s what I said… it would be hard to defend a case where one knowingly spent the funds.

However, as @anon44204028 alluded to, it’s not definitively illegal in all circumstances. The Financial Ombudsman would certainly view you sympathetically if you unknowingly spent a relatively small amount of funds placed into your account in error.

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How come everytime Monzo’s goes down, half the thread ends up deflecting it to another bank? TSB bore the brunt this time.

Banks. Go. Down. Sometimes. :wink:

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I’d say it’s normal to inquire whether two outages are linked, as it could very well be a problem with a third-party affecting both banks.

Did this / is this also impact Direct Debits ?

Don’t think so, direct debits are processed around midnight. If the outage was around that time then it could’ve affected them but that’s not the case now.