Brexit Chat

Your contention is “If you make a decision, you must see it through.” Therefore, any example fits. If you agree the person in the example should be allowed to reverse their decision, you agree that Brexit should be reversed. It’s a logic thing.

Try another example:

You: “I would like to sell my house.”
Me: “I will buy your house.”
You: “I will sell my house to you.”
Me: “Fantastic, here’s 50p.”
You: “I don’t want to sell my house for 50p.”
Me: “You decided you would act. You’re bound to travel along your chosen path. And that’s now selling your house to me for 50p.”

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:joy::rofl:

Not at all. Because surely an individual would not just cast a vote without truly knowing and exploring possible outcomes. If the individual asks the right questions and continues to ask, eventually they will be in a position to cast a vote based on an informed decision making process.

If you asked me about my house you would realise that it is not mine to sell, you would have made me 50p richer :moneybag:

You have taken all thought and rationality out of the initial conversation.

This is my favourite argument.

People voted to punch themselves in the face, if they didn’t want to punch themselves in the face they should have ignored the scaremongering, the propoganda, the corruption the millions and millions of (overspent) marketing telling them they’re not punching themselves in the face and instead redirecting finger pointing at the latest scapegoat the EU (not teenage pregnancy, people on benefits, homeless or refugees this week).

Now it’s fairly clear they’re punching themselves in the face and it’s so weird, people wont admit they’re punching themselves in the face and then continue carrying on punching in broad daylight.

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That’s exactly what people did. The information did not exist.

Brexit also had a thousand forms based upon a million promises. It’s why no-one can agree. Leave might have won the vote but there is no consensus.

There was:

  • This who wanted to be like Norway.
  • Those who wanted to leave but stay in single market.
  • Those that wanted no deal and to cut all ties.
  • Those that wanted to leave single market but stay in customs union.
  • Those that wanted to control their own laws.
  • Those that wanted to control their borders.
  • Those that didn’t want to be in a European army.
  • Those who were told we’d have a large number of trade deals immediately.
  • Those who were told doing a deal with the EU would be the easiest trade deal ever.
  • Those who were told day one we’d be seeing Germany not the EU about a deal.
  • Those who were told the Commonwealth could sustain a similar size deal.
  • Those who believed we could Leave the EU and get a better deal from the outside.
  • Those who were told WTO trading is better than our deal.
  • Racists.

It was like promising your kid you’ll get him everything he wants for Christmas and then giving him coal.

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Not sure I entirely agree with this analogy!

Anyway. Thank you for the stimulating discussion all. It is always interesting! It would be boring if everyone agreed all the time!

Let’s see what happens in this space. You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised by the outcome :wink:

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Of course you don’t. All the best.

With the face punching. :smile:

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I agree with much of what you said except:

The main 2016 campaign for Britain Stronger In Europe clearly stated:

  • Our government would have to negotiate new trade relationships with the EU and many other countries worldwide. European leaders have confirmed that they would not give the UK any special treatment on access to trade in the EU single market. British firms would have to pay tariffs to trade, a new cost for them that would mean less trade, fewer businesses and fewer jobs for you and your family.
  • After two years, the UK would automatically lose access to all arrangements with the EU, including trade deals, EU funding and rights to free travel, unless all EU states agree to extend talks.
  • In the EU Single Market, over 1 million UK businesses trade without export or import charges, or paperwork, to 500 million customers in the EU (Sources: HMRC and Treasury).
  • If we left, businesses would be hit by new charges to trade goods or services in the EU, leading to job cuts, higher prices, lower wages and fewer opportunities for you and your family.

The leaflet sent by the governemnt to every household in the UK stated:

The EU is by far the UK’s biggest trading partner. EU countries buy 44% of everything we sell abroad, from cars to insurance. Remaining inside the EU guarantees our full access to its Single Market. By contrast, leaving creates uncertainty and risk.

Losing our full access to the EU’s Single Market would make exporting to Europe harder and increase costs.

David Cameron, the then Prime Minister, stated many times:

What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.

George Osbourne, the then Chancellor, stated many times:

We would be out of the single market.

Seems clear that a vote to leave the EU would mean leaving the Single Market. You have to remember, the government was pro-Remain back then. They would definitely say leaving the Single Market as a reason not to leave the EU as it is an ace card for them. It just didn’t work.

https://www.strongerin.co.uk/get_the_facts

I’m sure there are racists who also voted remain as well as leave.

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Nice post.

Leave campaigners absolutely said you could stay in the single market, repeatedly:

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And this is the exact issue with referendums.

In elections, political parties issue manifestos setting out what they intend to do over the next 5 years, and ask people to vote for it and will be judged on how well they did.

In a referendum, lobby groups can make make exaggerated and contradictory promises, safe in the knowledge that they won’t be held to account for the implementation of those promises.

This means that those lobby groups, if the end result turns out out to be a crock of poo, can wring their hands and say that the principle of what they said was sound, the problems have been caused by ineffective implementation.

A bit like religion. If it doesn’t work for you, it’s because you’re not doing it right.

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Exactly why people don’t vote. They are the enlightened.

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Where’s Marty Mcfly when you need him?

Looking on the lighter side.

Continuing the lighter side:

Check out @PoliticsJOE_UK’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1092740115716362241?s=09

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I’ve only just got that out of my head from a couple of days ago, now it’s back :sob:

:joy: it is brilliant though

I’m sorry…

I WANNA LEAVE THE COMMON MARKET!!!

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The graph of this petition since someone opened it yesterday:

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Not sure why they’re bothering with a petition, it’s sorted

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Changes have been made to this so it updates better in real time, and more context markers have been added: https://splasho.com/petitions/index.php?petition=241584