Brexit Chat


(Marc Dando) #437

Fair enough, dude. Anyhow, I’m sure there’ll be much to discuss in regards to Brexit over the coming days/weeks/eons - so I’m gonna take a break and go make a sandwich :sweat_smile:


(Is Santa here yet?) #438

(Should probably make it clear that’s a parody account but so accurate I had to post it)


(PhilB) #439

It would be nice if there had just been “a” day.


(Jamie 🏳️‍🌈) #440

What happens if 40% vote Remain, 30% vote Leave with deal offered and 30% vote Leave hard Brexit? A majority vote to Leave but the choice with most support is Remain?


(Christopher) #441

I think the simplest question is Brexit Agreement or Remain.

A three way referendum could be very problematic and I’m not sure AVx could be applied to the voting process? Any electoral experts that could provide some insight?


(Jamie 🏳️‍🌈) #442

But then what do the people who want a hard Brexit vote for?


#443

This is why we’re a representative democracy. It’s… unfortunate that the main parties aren’t internally consistent on Brexit.


(Nick) #444

Easy. The option they consider to be the lesser of two evils. Or just not vote.


#445

I think we should have a referendum on whether or not the UK should split up… in recent years Ive felt that none of the main important issues will ever get resolved because everyone is pulling in different directions…government just doesnt work anymore…well not for the good of the people anyway…


(Christopher) #446

That’s whats up for negotiation during the withdrawal period. The agreement effectively allows for a softer landing, rather than leaving with no transition arrangements in place, which is in my view comparable to landing a laden A380 too fast with an inoperable landing gear.

A key goal of the agreement is to allow for a orderly withdrawal from the single market, customs union and ECJ jurisdiction. That’s a pretty definitive departure from the EU.


#447

She has made us a laughing stock… no doubt about it… I think she’s just trying to stitch us up as punishment for voting to leave… I just wish the DUP hadnt ruined the last election by siding with her…


(Jamie 🏳️‍🌈) #448

Not sure you can realistically design a referendum where you’re asking people to “not vote” in order to have their say.


(Nick) #449

That’s not quite what I’m saying.

Others have already said that in order for a referendum to work, you have to keep the options simple.

You asked what people who didn’t like either option could do, and that’s what I replied to. That’s all.

In the same way I might be offered beef or lamb for dinner and actually want chicken. My options would be to eat beef, eat lamb, or not eat anything.


#450

To be democratic, though, the options need to accommodate the entire electorate.

So, in your example, the options could be “Beef” or “Not beef”. Then a few years thereafter spent deciding what proportion of people wanted lamb or chicken.


(Nick) #451

But chicken isn’t an option.


(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #452

Good idea. But we’ve already done that. Scotland (voted 60%+ remain) had an independence referendum. If they’d voted yes, all the remainers could move there and England could then have an exit. Although it could end up a bit like partition in India, which didn’t go that well :wink:


(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #453

Then we’d need to define ‘electorate.’

The Scottish independence referendum included everyone aged 16+, which seemed sensible to me at the time.

The ironic thing about the Brexit referendum is that those aged 16 at the time would be aged 18 by the time a second referendum comes around. :man_shrugging:


((╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻) #455

This!

A second referendum would be a really bad idea. There is no guarantee on the outcome and if it was the same we would have to go through all this again! The decision has been made to do this so let’s just press on and get it over and done with.

I may be being naive but everyone should be working together to get the best for this country, not stabbing each other in the back and quitting. I understand that it’s a difficult situation to be in but that’s no excuse.


#456

I can’t help think that the past 2 years should have been taken up by a mixture of asking the public questions and then formulating a proposal… not a bunch of toffee nosed shysters hiding away plotting whatever they feel like with total disregard to how it will impact the nation


(Simon B) #457

I personally think a second referendum is needed, because it’s since been proven that a huge amount of the rhetoric provided by the likes of Farage and his “Leave” friends was at best incredibly exaggerated and at worst, lies.

Can you really claim that something is the will of the people when a significant chunk of them had no idea what they were voting for or were lied to about how it could happen? Let’s lay the cards on the table. If the folks who wanted to Leave still feel that way now knowing everything that’s happened since the first referendum, then they should feel confident that the result would be the same. But I think they are terrified it wouldn’t be… And for good reason.