Brexit Chat

(Eve) #417

Please, not Gove either :nauseated_face:

(Marc Dando) #418

A lot needs to happen before we’re looking at a new PM, but for some reason I’ve got a hunch that it would be David Davis as opposed to Michael Gove.

(Eve) #419

I don’t want him to be PM either, he’s very conservative and believes in a lot of lovely things like restricting abortion, IVF, and LGBTQ+ rights /s

(Adam) #420

Brexit is that divisive, that crosses many party lines it would be a struggle to get any deal (no matter how good or bad) through parliament.

(Marc Dando) #421

Again, this is all reads like a kid calling the other kid chicken, you know? I mean, the US doesn’t go back for another election when a President’s approval rating is in the doldrums. Although I appreciate that this issue is the most serious issue the UK has had to deal with in quite some time.

Anyway, we’re kinda getting bogged down because all I meant to say was that it’s wise not to be so sure that a second referendum would pan out a different way. I didn’t say it wouldn’t :slight_smile:

(Marc Dando) #422

Yeah, that’s fair enough. I’m not a big fan of his either really.

(Richard) #423

Huge if true…

(Christopher) #424

Totally important point, but I’m not sure DUP alignment is the ultimate goal here. It’s a question of reassurance, damage limitation and seeking the best outcome for the U.K. and our largest trading partner, Ireland.

Also, have we considered the possibility that one desired outcome is rejection of withdrawal bill before parliament? Next logical step? If parliament can’t do this, then we do need a second referendum.

Rant alert: the DUP must be delusional, or stupid or maybe both, as evidenced by their frankly egregious support for Brexit, an outcome surely incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement and the fundamental principles of the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties. The withdrawal agreement is the best of a truly dreadful situation, but dogma, rather than reality is informing their position.

(Jonathon) #425

It’s not about approval of it though. This isn’t a 5 year government. This is a life long decision that was made without all facts available and questionable tactics and funding. It’s literally nothing like an election for government.

(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #426

I’m thinking that all this talk of a vote of no confidence in May is perfectly timed for her to be parachuted into I’m A Celebrity half way through as a surprise camp mate

PS I’m utterly ashamed of myself for knowing that that is a thing :open_mouth:

(Richard) #427


(Marc Dando) #428

I’ll hold my hands up and admit that the US/President comparison wasn’t a fair one (I didn’t feel it was right to go back and slyly take it out of there :sweat_smile:)

And I do get what you’re saying, especially in respect of the tactics/funding side of things. Although I think it’s fair to say that there was a bit of underhand tactics on both sides. I mean, Nick Clegg rubbished Nigel Farage’s claim that there were plans afoot for a EU army… and this is something that’s been in the news very recently, hasn’t it? Some even said that there would be a recession straight after the actual vote. And I actually voted remain, so I do recall a lot of this stuff. It’s fair to say that both sides did a bit of fear mongering. You’ll say that the leave campaign engaged with this kind of a thing a lot more, and that could be a very reasonable thing to say. But just to make sure this back and forth doesn’t drag on all day - my only real point here is that questionable tactics were employed on both sides. I would hope that we could kind of agree on that?

I’m a bit wary of “without all facts available” as well because the UK has never left the EU before - and we don’t even have all the facts available now, surely? So if a second referendum takes place and the leave camp are once again victorious and then this all followed by more talk of economic doom and gloom, would that mean you’d call for a third referendum?

(Jai Sullivan) #429

There is no possibility of getting rid of May, starting the negotiations from scratch, and securing a new, ‘better’ deal by March 2019. So what the Brexiteers/ERG are really talking about is replacing her deal with a no deal scenario. The EU has already expressed there is no way that A50 can be ‘paused’ or ‘withdrawn’ for more negotiating time. It can only be withdrawn to remain in the EU.

(If there's the wrong end of a stick, you'll find me holding it.) #430

This just popped up in my notifications

So if any wants a day of Brexit chaos, I’ve got it here.

(Marc Dando) #431

I’d be wary of the tone of conclusiveness that’s coming from the EU at the moment. They and Theresa May are going to be singing from the same hymn sheet. But if May is replaced by a Brexiteer type and that individual wishes to try their hand at negotiating something different, I honestly don’t believe the EU would say… “on your bike”.

(Noel Edmonds Beard Sculptor ) #432

This country is a joke, Theresa May has made us a laughing stock to the rest of the world.

We voted out and it should remain as that, if we have another election over it and that changes firstly there will be anarchy on the streets and we will never be listened to again in the EU as what little respect we do have would be gone.

They may as well kick her out and do a no deal and let us go from there.

(Jonathon) #433

Oh see if there was a referendum I would hope it was:

  1. The deal offered
  2. Remain
  3. “Hard” brexit

It’s fairly easy to get a hard brexit, though it would be terrible for the UK and result in a border in Ireland but there we are if it’s the will of the people…

I’m not saying it’s perfect, but there is evidence to suggest that there was more to people voting leave than actual dislike of the EU. Even so far as being a protest vote against the government, with the expectation that we would remain.

Frankly this should never have gone to a referendum. It’s far too complex for a binary choice but there we have it, thanks to Dave.

(Nick) #434

Why? They’re occupying the strongest position. If we end up with No Deal, we suffer, they don’t. They’ve no reason to budge at all.

There’s no possible way we can get the deal we really want because we’re basically saying “We would like to leave your club and stop paying club dues, but still use all the services and gaining all the advantages of the club.”

I really wish the government would turn around and rescind Article 50, which Tusk has repeatedly said is possible.

(Christopher) #435

Yes, precisely, and the ERG know this. It’ll make for a convenient excuse should things really hit the wall, come B-Day. “The EU wants to inflict damage, the EU is obstructive” etc. etc. yawn. yawn.

It’s brazen opportunism on their part. The minority cross-party Brexit taliban within parliament is attempting to push for the hardest of departures from the EU, and given everything we know, and on the balance of probabilities, this is an outcome we really ought to all seek to prevent.

(Jai Sullivan) #436

I think everybody agrees at this point that absolutely nobody (including all these decorated TV journalists with copious amounts of ‘sources’) are in a position to say what is going to happen. A proper, full blown, national crisis.